Shots fired outside parliament - Please refrain from speculative and antagonistic posts

[MrMarvelous]

Driving into crowds will be the new tactic these sub-humans will use from now on, especially in Europe.

 

[awaybreaktoday]

BBC News understands that the attacker was shot by a bodyguard of Defence Secretary, Sir Michael Fallon, not a routine armed guard.

Political editor Laura Kuenssberg told BBC Two's Daily Politics: "The crucial difference is that those bodyguards are only in the Palace of Westminster when those ministers are actually there."

 

[Rilot]

Why aren't all vehicles in this day and age not fitted with a device that as soon as a collision with ANYTHING has occurred then the engine automatically cuts out?

Because it would be extremely unsafe to have cars cut out if they were to hit a pheasant, rabbit, piece of road debris etc.

 

[DeanT77]

Why? If people are saying that 1% of Muslims are islamic terrorists and therefore they should be interned to be on the safe side why is that any different?

You quoted a post which referred to the attacker (a single person) as a potential extremist then went onto compare that to all white english men of a particular age and background, that is stupid and a ridiculous comparison to make.

 

[Arazi]

"Known to the police" is such a misleading term.. Maybe if they had significantly fewer people on the lists they could police them more effectively but it's clearly nonsense to believe we could ever properly keep a constant eye on everyone on the "list" there's probably not enough police officers to complete the task.

Everyone on one of those lists should be taken into custody, processed and deported to country of origin or country of parents origin, if that cannot be done lock them up until they are no longer a threat.

We would then unlikely have the following ridiculous shocking stats:

7/7 bombers - known to MI5 and the police, had previously been investigated, didn't do any good.
Bataclan ringleader and accomplices - already known to the police, didn't do any good
Charlie Hebdo attacks - all attackers known to the police and intelligence services - didn't do any good.
Brussels suicide bombings (airport and underground) - nearly all attackers known to police and intelligence services - didn't do any good
Nice truck attack - main suspect known to the police - didn't do any good
Berlin Christmas market attack - main suspect known to police, and intelligence services - and in the process of being deported, didn't do any good
Westminster attack, - attacker known to the police and MI5 - didn't do any good,

Drastic measures should be taken so the above joke cannot keep happening, i read that list and actually laughed at how ******* ridiculous that it is all true, I am amazed at how stupid we are, something as obvious as that list deserves one response, arrest them all and deport!

 

[wildman]

I didn't claim it was just western europe. But for example my own country has yet to have a religion driven attack like this. And I hope it never does. My point is that these kind of attacks have not been common in western europe as they are now. They are becoming completely routine, and that is depressing to me.



Yet another strawman. Never claimed world has ever been a peaceful paradise. But fact remains, these attacks have become way more common in Europe than ever before.

no not more common, just more coverage. ETA for example were blowing Spain up since the 60's all the way through to around 2010/2011, it just wasn't as well covered as todays terror acts due to the fact that media / social networking and technology just wasn't there to do it.

 

[Chris Wilson]

French school children hurt in London, and now a French connection to the Antwerp terrorist, Le Pen support will be inexorably rising.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

I think you over estimate the usefulness of these 'lists'. They are likely huge lists of anyone considered slightly suspicious due to social/religious/proffesional relationships but not necessarily dangerous or guilty of anything. There isn't the means to lock all these people up, there isnt the grounds to lock these people up (or they would be locked up already) and a witch hunt like that will likely do more bad than good and push people to their side.

Also, STFU with this deporting. Some are home grown, where the hell are you going to deport to? The UK does not have the power to deport them to their parents country and especially on the grounds that they are suspicious but there is no evidence that they are a danger.

The way some of you post would surprise me if there isn't at least a few OCuk members on a right wing extremist list...

 

[Arazi]

French school children hurt in London, and now a French connection to the Antwerp terrorist, Le Pen support will be inexorably rising.

Ive got a few quid on her.

 

[FortuitousFluke]

Everyone on one of those lists should be taken into custody, processed and deported to country of origin or country of parents origin, if that cannot be done lock them up until they are no longer a threat.

We would then unlikely have the following ridiculous shocking stats:



Drastic measures should be taken so the above joke cannot keep happening, i read that list and actually laughed at how ******* ridiculous that it is all true, I am amazed at how stupid we are, something as obvious as that list deserves one response, arrest them all and deport!

You can't stop all terrorist attacks, if anything the fact that many perpetrators are known to the authorities is a good thing, it shows that they're able to effectively disseminate intelligence and identify threats. As somebody mentioned earlier in the thread, for every attack that is successful there are x number which aren't.

 

[Arazi]

You can't stop all terrorist attacks, if anything the fact that many perpetrators are known to the authorities is a good thing, it shows that they're able to effectively disseminate intelligence and identify threats. As somebody mentioned earlier in the thread, for every attack that is successful there are x number which aren't.

I agree and know we cannot stop them all, but dealing with the potential one's we know about is a start.

 

[Rilot]

I agree and know we cannot stop them all, but dealing with the potential one's we know about is a start.

And how do we define who gets deported and who doesn't? How much evidence is needed or is just a slight suspicion enough?

 

[FortuitousFluke]

I agree and know we cannot stop them all, but dealing with the potential one's we know about is a start.

You don't know they're terrorists, you know they're on a watch list. If there was evidence to convict them it would have been pursued.

 

[FTM]

And how do we define who gets deported and who doesn't? How much evidence is needed or is just a slight suspicion enough?

they would have to be brown...thats all thats needed for some people on here by the look of it

 

[h4rm0ny]

Seems like some are just content to ignore the problem as the chances of them being killed or affected by terrorism are still quite small when looking at the statistics. Comparing to the blitz is disingenuous too as Britain was actively in the process of fighting a known enemy, what we see today is random terror with global visibility rather than a conventional war in a bygone era.

I don't think anyone is ignoring the problem. Plenty of police and intelligence services working hard to prevent such tragedies. But change just to be doing something isn't a good thing either. If a response has negative consequences that are greater than the gains - like for example allowing police to withdraw people's driving licence without giving a reason - the "not doing something" is not a bad thing. Even when a country is run very well and has good laws in place, tragedies like this would still happen. So we have to consider when they occur is it the fault of our laws / behaviour, or the fault of the person who did it. If it's not the former, then don't change them.

its called accident, very big different from attack

In the context of moral blame, yes it is. In the context of whether or not you should alter your behaviour because of it (which is the context of your reply), no it is not. Risk is risk from the outside point of view.

 

[Arazi]

I think you over estimate the usefulness of these 'lists'. They are likely huge lists of anyone considered slightly suspicious due to social/religious/proffesional relationships but not necessarily dangerous or guilty of anything. There isn't the means to lock all these people up, there isnt the grounds to lock these people up (or they would be locked up already) and a witch hunt like that will likely do more bad than good and push people to their side.

Also, STFU with this deporting. Some are home grown, where the hell are you going to deport to? The UK does not have the power to deport them to their parents country and especially on the grounds that they are suspicious but there is no evidence that they are a danger.

The way some of you post would surprise me if there isn't at least a few OCuk members on a right wing extremist list...

There are plenty of hand wringers in here as usual, you are no different.

I have also noticed a few posters in here have now gone from using the usual accusations such as racists, xenophobes etc etc to now accusing anyone with a different opinion than them as being right wing extremists, i am guessing you are accusing me of being on a possible right wing extremist list in the last part of your post?

Ok, that game is easy, the way some of you lot post on here people would think you are terrorists, No?

And how do we define who gets deported and who doesn't? How much evidence is needed or is just a slight suspicion enough?

I don't work for the security services, but they could work that one out for you.

 

[FortuitousFluke]

I don't work for the security services, but they could work that one out for you.

By this logic you're effectively saying that at some point during the intelligence investigation into somebody we should seek to deport them if appropriate. This already happens, we often deport foreign nationals convicted of terrorism offenses after their prison sentence is completed. If you want a change in the level of the burden of proof you kind of need to help us out by defining where you would like the line to be moved to.

 

[matt100]

I thought it was self-evident. Or have there been vehicular massacres like the ones in Nice, Berlin, now London, decade, two, three ago a regular occurence? If they were then I apologise for being misinformed.

It depends on how you define a vehicular massacre. My point was I very much doubt terrorism incidents are significantly different to when we were dealing with the IRA or in Spain with Eta etc etc.. it's shocking and terrible for sure but 3 attacks in London in 12 years if you include Lee Rigby isn't an epidemic.

Everyone on one of those lists should be taken into custody, processed and deported to country of origin or country of parents origin, if that cannot be done lock them up until they are no longer a threat.

Well then thank god smarter people than you are in charge of this sort of thing.

Oh and deported to a parents country lol... in almost all circumstances even that pretty vile suggestion would lead to people being deported to Britain

 

[XeNoN89]

We should deport 'home grown' terrorists to G Bay with the help of Mr Trump tbh.

Let them rot away there, regardless of nationality

 

[Arazi]

By this logic you're effectively saying that at some point during the intelligence investigation into somebody we should seek to deport them if appropriate. This already happens, we often deport foreign nationals convicted of terrorism offenses after their prison sentence is completed. If you want a change in the level of the burden of proof you kind of need to help us out by defining where you would like the line to be moved to.

I think i answered your question in my original post, but here you go, anyone who is on a terror watch list.
Will that do?