Perhaps but thank god our policies are driven by rational thought so it really doesn't matter either way.
They already are and they're doing their jobs?
Shots fired outside parliament - Please refrain from speculative and antagonistic posts
- Thread starter Mr Jack
- Start date
Perhaps but thank god our policies are driven by rational thought so it really doesn't matter either way.
They already are and they're doing their jobs?
A mix. Copts were a large group. There were also substantial Jewish and Greek populations. And a number of Nubians as well. In terms of religion, by the point of the Arab invasion Christianity was predominant with a substantial representation of Judaism and paganism as well. So it is, as the OP said, neither Arab nor Muslim until they were invaded.
No its not. He stated that "statistically" these people could be interned. I am saying there are lots of groups that can easily be identified as "statistically" likely to commit a crime. Interning them all isnt the solution.
Seems like quite a few people on here want to go back to the 30s Germany and have neighbours snitch on people and then the autorities will come and take them away. What a great country we live in.
Soldato
- Joined
- 7 Jul 2011
- Posts
- 4,418
- Location
- Cambridgeshire
Absolutely, thanks for clarifying. People have been known to be added to watch lists, and taken to court in some cases, purely for downloading copies of the anarchists cookbook, do they count? I'd also imagine associates of suspected terrorists appear on these lists as people of interest, seems a bit harsh to deport them for having dodgy friends don't you think? Is this not straying into the realm of though crime a bit? By all means take action against those who commit crimes, conduct surveillance on those you suspect to be involved in or planning a crime, but deporting people because you have a suspicion they might possibly do something in the future, or because you suspect terrorist sympathies, is a step too far imho.
Permabanned
- Joined
- 15 May 2006
- Posts
- 4,107
- Location
- London
Maybe some people here would be a lot happier and feel a lot safer if all non whites were deported from the UK......
It depends on how you define a vehicular massacre. My point was I very much doubt terrorism incidents are significantly different to when we were dealing with the IRA or in Spain with Eta etc etc.. it's shocking and terrible for sure but 3 attacks in London in 12 years if you include Lee Rigby isn't an epidemic.
Well then thank god smarter people than you are in charge of this sort of thing.
Oh and deported to a parents country lol... in almost all circumstances even that pretty vile suggestion would lead to people being deported to Britain
Vile suggestion? Well Ze Germans are taking the approach i mentioned in my previous post,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...o-terror-suspects-born-country-life-long-ban/
"Germany is set to deport two terror suspects, despite both being born in the country but whose parents are foreigners - the first case of its kind in German history."
It doesnt seem vile to them.
So animal rights activists whos family have lived here for generations, where do we deport them to? Or do we look them up and through away the key with no trial?
Seems like quite a few people on here want to go back to the 30s Germany and have neighbours snitch on people and then the autorities will come and take them away. What a great country we live in.
Who has posted that?
Oh thats right, no one
Greebo and his\her fake news.
Soldato
- Joined
- 7 Jul 2011
- Posts
- 4,418
- Location
- Cambridgeshire
There's a difference between being suspected of planning an imminent terrorist attack and being on a watchlist.
Thats a huge step up from just "being on a watch list" They were found with ISIS materials and guns. A little bit different don;t you think?
Not sure if it's been pointed out but the car stuff happened round the corner from the officer. He may have heard noise but he wouldn't have seen it.
That is why i said drastic measures, which would be temporary, not permanent. And again, for your clarity, ANYONE ON A WATCH LIST.
Soldato
- Joined
- 7 Jul 2011
- Posts
- 4,418
- Location
- Cambridgeshire
Fair enough, I fear we're probably diametrically opposed on this one so I'll leave it here.
Who has posted that?
Oh thats right, no one
Greebo and his\her fake news.
Well what does interning people based on their statistically likelihood to carry out a terrorist attack mean then? Then people saying anybody "suspected" should be deported. Suspected by whom and why?
Clearly some people just want a police state here and people can disappear with no trial or charges.
So drop the snidey fake news rubbish Arazi.
Nothing was proved against them, they have not been convicted as all charges got dropped, so they are just like i said, they are people on a watch list, so deport them.
How does Temporary deportation work then? Lets say you are on a watch list now Arazi. How would you feel to be temporarily deported?
If they have or are suspected of being involved in terrorism in anyway then yes, and in my original post i said until they are deemed no threat, however long that takes, what is so hard to understand?
All you're doing is moving the goalposts.
What criteria should be used for putting people on a watch list?
As has been mentioned above family members and friends of "people of interest" could be on there, do they get go as well?
Also what do we do with people who are many generations British, examine their DNA to see which country they should go to?
Permabanned
- Joined
- 28 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 10,695
- Location
- Shropshire
If anyone is interested there are plenty of precedents for internment, especially during WWII, here's something I just found with a quick Google search:
World War II Enemy Alien Control Program Overview
Brief Overview of the World War II Enemy Alien Control Program
Immediately after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, President Roosevelt issued Presidential Proclamations 2525, 2526, and 2527 to authorize the United States to detain allegedly potentially dangerous enemy aliens. The FBI and other law enforcement agencies arrested thousands of suspected enemy aliens, mostly individuals of German, Italian, or Japanese ancestry, living throughout the United States.
The Department of Justice oversaw the processing of the cases and the internment program. Although many were released or paroled after hearings before a local alien enemy hearing board, for many the adversarial hearings resulted in internment that, in a few cases, lasted beyond the end of World War II. Of those interned, there was evidence that some had pro-Axis sympathies. Many others were interned based on weak evidence or unsubstantiated accusations of which they were never told or had little power to refute. Often families, including naturalized or American-born spouses and children, of those interned voluntarily joined them in internment.
Furthermore, on the basis of hemispheric security, the United States offered to intern allegedly dangerous enemy aliens living in Latin American countries and even recommended which enemy aliens should be interned. Over fifteen Latin American countries accepted the offer and eventually deported a total of over 6,600 individuals of Japanese, German, and Italian ancestry, along with some of their families, to the U.S. for internment. Few, if any, of those deported received any sort of a hearing so many did not know the specific reasons for their deportation. Often these individuals were deported based on hearsay or for other political reasons.
By the end of the war, over 31,000 suspected enemy aliens and their families, including a few Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany, had been interned at Immigration and Naturalization Services (INS) internment camps and military facilities throughout the United States. Some of these internment locations included Sharp Park Detention Station, California; Kooskia Internment Camp, Idaho; Fort Missoula Internment Camp, Montana; Fort Stanton Internment Camp and Santa Fe Internment Camp in New Mexico; Ellis Island Detention Station, New York; Fort Lincoln Internment Camp, North Dakota; Fort Forrest, Tennessee; and Crystal City Internment Camp, Kenedy Detention Station, and Seagoville Detention Station in Texas.
Not all remained in internment for the entire war. The Department of Justice reviewed individual internee cases and granted parole to some of the internees. Several thousand internees chose to or were forced to repatriate to the country of their nationality, Italy, Germany or Japan. Some pursued legal means to fight for due process, avoid repatriation, and be released. With the end of the war, the government continued to repatriate some of the internees, but also began releasing those no longer deemed as dangerous. It took several years to dismantle the internment program. By 1948, the Department of Justice closed the last internment camp and released the remaining few internees.
Along with detainment and internment, the U.S. also implemented the Individual Exclusion Program under the authority of Executive Order 9066 to exclude individuals of German or Italian ancestry, including American citizens, from designated military zones. While the War Department considered thousands for exclusion, it only issued exclusion orders for several hundred individuals. Many enemy aliens living in military zones and elsewhere in America were subject to curfews and other restrictions on their conduct.
#######################################
Would it happen now, here or in other European countries? Depends on how bad things get I guess, it is definitely a possibility I would say. But WWII was a conventional war, with the enemy in uniforms, fighting against specific countries, the current situation is totally different and unprecedented in modern times outside (perhaps), the Balkans. I remember my parents telling me a German who lived nearby was arrested one night on suspicion of being a spy, and not seen again for two years, he then returned to Germany with some family members, under a deportation order. What occurred with English born sympathisers I am not sure, no doubt it's all documented on the web somewhere. Can't see May suggesting it any time soon somehow
World War II Enemy Alien Control Program Overview
Brief Overview of the World War II Enemy Alien Control Program
Immediately after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, President Roosevelt issued Presidential Proclamations 2525, 2526, and 2527 to authorize the United States to detain allegedly potentially dangerous enemy aliens. The FBI and other law enforcement agencies arrested thousands of suspected enemy aliens, mostly individuals of German, Italian, or Japanese ancestry, living throughout the United States.
The Department of Justice oversaw the processing of the cases and the internment program. Although many were released or paroled after hearings before a local alien enemy hearing board, for many the adversarial hearings resulted in internment that, in a few cases, lasted beyond the end of World War II. Of those interned, there was evidence that some had pro-Axis sympathies. Many others were interned based on weak evidence or unsubstantiated accusations of which they were never told or had little power to refute. Often families, including naturalized or American-born spouses and children, of those interned voluntarily joined them in internment.
Furthermore, on the basis of hemispheric security, the United States offered to intern allegedly dangerous enemy aliens living in Latin American countries and even recommended which enemy aliens should be interned. Over fifteen Latin American countries accepted the offer and eventually deported a total of over 6,600 individuals of Japanese, German, and Italian ancestry, along with some of their families, to the U.S. for internment. Few, if any, of those deported received any sort of a hearing so many did not know the specific reasons for their deportation. Often these individuals were deported based on hearsay or for other political reasons.
By the end of the war, over 31,000 suspected enemy aliens and their families, including a few Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany, had been interned at Immigration and Naturalization Services (INS) internment camps and military facilities throughout the United States. Some of these internment locations included Sharp Park Detention Station, California; Kooskia Internment Camp, Idaho; Fort Missoula Internment Camp, Montana; Fort Stanton Internment Camp and Santa Fe Internment Camp in New Mexico; Ellis Island Detention Station, New York; Fort Lincoln Internment Camp, North Dakota; Fort Forrest, Tennessee; and Crystal City Internment Camp, Kenedy Detention Station, and Seagoville Detention Station in Texas.
Not all remained in internment for the entire war. The Department of Justice reviewed individual internee cases and granted parole to some of the internees. Several thousand internees chose to or were forced to repatriate to the country of their nationality, Italy, Germany or Japan. Some pursued legal means to fight for due process, avoid repatriation, and be released. With the end of the war, the government continued to repatriate some of the internees, but also began releasing those no longer deemed as dangerous. It took several years to dismantle the internment program. By 1948, the Department of Justice closed the last internment camp and released the remaining few internees.
Along with detainment and internment, the U.S. also implemented the Individual Exclusion Program under the authority of Executive Order 9066 to exclude individuals of German or Italian ancestry, including American citizens, from designated military zones. While the War Department considered thousands for exclusion, it only issued exclusion orders for several hundred individuals. Many enemy aliens living in military zones and elsewhere in America were subject to curfews and other restrictions on their conduct.
#######################################
Would it happen now, here or in other European countries? Depends on how bad things get I guess, it is definitely a possibility I would say. But WWII was a conventional war, with the enemy in uniforms, fighting against specific countries, the current situation is totally different and unprecedented in modern times outside (perhaps), the Balkans. I remember my parents telling me a German who lived nearby was arrested one night on suspicion of being a spy, and not seen again for two years, he then returned to Germany with some family members, under a deportation order. What occurred with English born sympathisers I am not sure, no doubt it's all documented on the web somewhere. Can't see May suggesting it any time soon somehow
No problem, Just different opinions