Poll: Poll: Prime Minister Theresa May calls General Election on June 8th

[stewski]

While you think it might be terrible a modern incarnation probably isn't a bad shout. Perhaps people who are unemployed can receive some form of JSA linked to contributions for the first 6 months and then if they want handouts beyond that or if they've not contributed sufficient NI in the first place then they can work for their JSA payments by carrying out community service somewhere within their region - this only need be part time in order to match the standard JSA payment so still plenty of time left over for them to get a proper job and perhaps more motivation for them to do so too.

If we could make a valued contribution for people on JSA I don't have a problem with that, however the cost of running and administration need to not outstrip the value.
JSA is something like 0.7% of Government annual spend or 2.9% of the Department for Work and Pensions spend, still if you can make it work, every little helps...

 

[RDM]

While you think it might be terrible a modern incarnation probably isn't a bad shout. Perhaps people who are unemployed can receive some form of JSA linked to contributions for the first 6 months and then if they want handouts beyond that or if they've not contributed sufficient NI in the first place then they can work for their JSA payments by carrying out community service somewhere within their region - this only need be part time in order to match the standard JSA payment so still plenty of time left over for them to get a proper job and perhaps more motivation for them to do so too.

What work would they do?

If it is just busy work then it is pointless. If it is something that needs doing then surely we should be paying someone to do it? If it is something someone is already doing then you will just end up with people losing their jobs.

 

[dowie]

What work would they do?

If it is just busy work then it is pointless. If it is something that needs doing then surely we should be paying someone to do it? If it is something someone is already doing then you will just end up with people losing their jobs.

ah but if they lose their jobs then they can join the JSA work crew...

there are plenty of things that could be done, yes some of them might well be covered by contractors though this could potentially be made more efficient than hiring contractors

the workfare idea via employers is also potentially worth exploring - provided said employers are actually willing to take people on afterwards

I think you are right to point out that this shouldn't just be done for the sake of it, if there are a surplus of people relative to the useful work that could be done then perhaps getting people to partake in work activities for benefits could be for a set number of weeks and not continuous. After all the whole point is that we're paying out money for nothing and it might be worth exploring whether there is a return to be had from it and perhaps give some people the kick up the arse they need. If it is too widespread to the point where the cost of administering it is higher than any benefit derived from it then it is pointless.

 

[stewski]

ah but if they lose their jobs then they can join the JSA work crew...

there are plenty of things that could be done, yes some of them might well be covered by contractors though this could potentially be made more efficient than hiring contractors

the workfare idea via employers is also potentially worth exploring - provided said employers are actually willing to take people on afterwards

I think you are right to point out that this shouldn't just be done for the sake of it, if there are a surplus of people relative to the useful work that could be done then perhaps getting people to partake in work activities for benefits could be for a set number of weeks and not continuous. After all the whole point is that we're paying out money for nothing and it might be worth exploring whether there is a return to be had from it and perhaps give some people the kick up the arse they need. If it is too widespread to the point where the cost of administering it is higher than any benefit derived from it then it is pointless.

Yes, but of the money that is paid how much is to JSA claims and how much is in current admin, versus how much an invent some work for people on JSA will cost?

 

[Zefan]

What work would they do?

If it is just busy work then it is pointless. If it is something that needs doing then surely we should be paying someone to do it? If it is something someone is already doing then you will just end up with people losing their jobs.

Working at libraries would be a good start. 11 of the 15 libraries in my area have closed in the last year. Of the 4 that are left, only 1 will be open full time. The others will be open part time, and either self service or staffed by volunteers.

I'm not really in to the whole "work for your JSA" idea, but to say that it wouldn't work because there isn't work to do just isn't true. The problem is, the only jobs that are suitable (in that they wouldn't be stealing someone else's job) are jobs that aren't worth paying someone minimum wage to do, and that's a dangerous road to go down.

 

[V F]

Working at libraries would be a good start. 11 of the 15 libraries in my area have closed in the last year. Of the 4 that are left, only 1 will be open full time. The others will be open part time, and either self service or staffed by volunteers.

I'm not really in to the whole "work for your JSA" idea, but to say that it wouldn't work because there isn't work to do just isn't true. The problem is, the only jobs that are suitable (in that they wouldn't be stealing someone else's job) are jobs that aren't worth paying someone minimum wage to do, and that's a dangerous road to go down.

How do you combat that with a government that thinks if it can save money shut it down. They don't care about us.

 

[dowie]

Would that be worthwhile in terms of the costs involved and the benefits derived from their labour? Would you effectively be paying them below minimum wage for their work?

It depends really on what exactly the labour involved etc.. (and to some extend how you quantify the benefit derived form it). I think it should be minimum wage.

 

[Zefan]

How do you combat that with a government that thinks if it can save money shut it down. They don't care about us.

Well by having people work for free (they're only getting the JSA that they would already be getting), the local government saves money so has less cost to consider. I realise it might be a drop in the ocean, but it's only a single example, there are clearly more opportunities to make use of people's time

@dowie - the problem with it being set at minumum wage is that you're then taking away real job opportunities.

 

[Zefan]

There's work to be done, but that doesn't mean JSA lifers are suitable people to do it. What if you end up having to pay them £7.50 a hour (or they have to do enough hours to make up their JSA at that rate)... you then have to add on the costs of training them, if they're trainable... you have to add on the costs of supervising them, if they even turn up... you then have someone working not many hours a week, so obviously you need numerous people to fulfil one job role... and you have to go through getting them DBS checked... then they leave after a week because they've got a job. Would it work out as cheaper than employing someone to be a librarian in the first place?

I agree, it's almost certainly not a workable idea in some cases, hence not being a big fan of the idea.

 

[stewski]

Well by having people work for free (they're only getting the JSA that they would already be getting), the local government saves money so has less cost to consider. I realise it might be a drop in the ocean, but it's only a single example, there are clearly more opportunities to make use of people's time.

Cool story Bro.
Alternatively the admin costs of sending JSA claimants to work in various public institutions and gain feedback on their work/suitability is likely to increase the DWP admin budget, which at around £5.6bn is greater than the Total £4.9Bn JSA spend per year.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/what_percentage_of_the_dwps_budg

 

[dowie]

Feel like fleshing out your proposal, then?

not particularly, that isn't exactly a small task

 

[Zefan]

Cool story Bro.
Alternatively the admin costs of sending JSA claimants to work in various public institutions and gain feedback on their work/suitability is likely to increase the DWP admin budget, which at around £5.6bn is greater than the Total £4.9Bn JSA spend per year.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/what_percentage_of_the_dwps_budg

If it's cool to you then it was worth me typing. God knows I only post for your approval

I'm aware of the increase in overhead that would be caused by the management of such a scheme and I do agree it most likely would be unfeasible, but I don't think it would be for a lack of work, as was claimed in the post I replied to.

 

[Feef]

Your chances are considerably better if you appoint a Proxy than if you go for a Postal vote.

I get the logic of that, but in the referendum I found out after the fact that my proxy vote was sent to my appointee's neighbour rather than her, so that was a waste of time getting back in touch with an ex girlfriend

 

[Dolph]

More brilliance from labour, the student who introduced corbyn at the local election launch has her resignation accepted by the labour party after her racist and antisemitic tweets came to light.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...gns-racist-tweets_uk_5911de3ce4b050bdca5faf2a

The ability of the party to shoot itself in both feet today has been amazing.

 

[stewski]

If it's cool to you then it was worth me typing. God knows I only post for your approval

I'm aware of the increase in overhead that would be caused by the management of such a scheme and I do agree it most likely would be unfeasible, but I don't think it would be for a lack of work, as was claimed in the post I replied to.

No the post you we replying to didn't (to my knowledge) claim that, VF said the government don't care about shutting down services (such as libraries), a position difficult to argue with. You then posted a rose tinted "free work from JSA claimants", I simply pointed out the probable flaw, which in all likelihood, you aren't going to now dispute.

 

[dowie]

More brilliance from labour, the student who introduced corbyn at the local election launch has her resignation accepted by the labour party after her racist and antisemitic tweets came to light.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...gns-racist-tweets_uk_5911de3ce4b050bdca5faf2a

The ability of the party to shoot itself in both feet today has been amazing.

I think that thanks to Facebook, twitter etc.. there is going to be dirt on pretty much every potential senior politicians in years to come - granted I don't expect most will have the outright unambiguous racist statements that this little bitch was airing but I'd suspect there will be plenty of other dirt to make for embarrassing news stories.

 

[Boycey0211]

I think that thanks to Facebook, twitter etc.. there is going to be dirt on pretty much every potential senior politicians in years to come - granted I don't expect most will have the outright unambiguous racist statements that this little bitch was airing but I'd suspect there will be plenty of other dirt to make for embarrassing news stories.

I said a fair bit of rubbish when I was 13 aswell tbh, but yeah thanks to social media this is all so much more apparent now

 

[Danthus]

More brilliance from labour, the student who introduced corbyn at the local election launch has her resignation accepted by the labour party after her racist and antisemitic tweets came to light.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...gns-racist-tweets_uk_5911de3ce4b050bdca5faf2a

The ability of the party to shoot itself in both feet today has been amazing.

What else has happened?

It is so depressing being out and about to be confronted with a gaffe you know nothing about.

 

[Tunney]

More brilliance from labour, the student who introduced corbyn at the local election launch has her resignation accepted by the labour party after her racist and antisemitic tweets came to light.

She'd be Foreign Secretary by now if she were a Tory.

 

[dowie]

Seems like it was a waste of time floating the idea, then. If you cba to actually talk about it/go beyond 'perhaps we could do vague thing x' .

not necessarily - fleshing it out much further is way beyond the scope of an online discussion

I don't see the problem in principle with trailing something like it though - obviously in an area of high unemployment then it very likely would be overkill for all JSA claimants to be involved at once