Theresa May to create new internet that would be controlled and regulated by government

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Trusty left the house at 8:42am, he then got to 56 Longshore Road at 9:05 before walking to Tescos at 10:25. At 11:15 he arrived at his place of work and subsequently left and got back to his house at 5:30, then going to the **** and Bull at 7:23pm, arriving back home at 11:23pm.

I really pity anyone going through my internet history for a day with entries for each time - just so far today 760 entries of which 221 would be visits to OcUK and that is just for starters.

They already can do it in the physical form as well, triangulation i think it is, if they suspect you of committing something heinous in the future then no doubt they will be watching you.

Seriously though, watch this documentary and then tell me what Homeland security are doing is wrong..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...-investigates-mums-selling-their-kids-for-sex

Which would be setup to specifically follow an individual, usually with a court order or similar on a limited basis.
 
I really pity anyone going through my internet history for a day with entries for each time - 760 entries of which 221 would be visits to OcUK and that is just for starters.



Which would be setup to specifically follow an individual, usually with a court order or similar on a limited basis.

Well that's it, you've just hit the nail on the head, they have better things to do than watch you, you are of no interest at all.

Just watch the documentary, complete entrapment what they are doing, i've no problem with it though
 
Well that's it, you've just hit the nail on the head, they have better things to do than watch you.

Except this is all logged, all the time which leaves it potentially vulnerable to misuse at any time or even leaked via cyber attacks, etc.

Same with this proposal it would be like having one of the old Soviet minders/commissar following you around 24x7 just making sure you weren't doing anything the state wouldn't like.
 
Except this is all logged, all the time which leaves it potentially vulnerable to misuse at any time or even leaked via cyber attacks, etc.

Same with this proposal it would be like having one of the old Soviet minders/commissar following you around 24x7 just making sure you weren't doing anything the state wouldn't like.

yea i don't disagree with the leaked stuff, like we've established, people have different views as to what is acceptable.

Why the leap to soviet era, the government can't afford to follow you around, if someone is trying to make bombs then im sure you want mind the government following him.
 
Take a look at the statistics... perhaps you could realise just how incredibly low the actual risk of "terrorism" is... then you realise it is nothing to give your freedom up for.

Yea but this gets back to a different point of view on Islam, do you think Islam is harmless?

What? No... that's the nature of TOR :/

TOR works perfectly fine in the UK, no issue what-so-ever

The websites on it then? i don't know what it's called, so i got the name wrong, what are the websites called that not available through google but through tor? Those are what i mean
 
The UK is already doing this, hence you can't find tor websites

What do you mean you can't find tor websites?

The UK government does indeed alread censor websites and has done for a decade or more. Generally they are child porn style websites though (although I guess we will never truly know). They are also trying to censor torrent websites with little success, which is one reason I guess they are trying to move towards a whitelist based intranet system rather than blacklisting certain sites.
 
Yea but this gets back to a different point of view on Islam, do you think Islam is harmless?

Just as harmless as Christianity, Judaism, etc...

You do realise that both Christian and Jewish countries are murdering many many times more innocent people than Islamic countries?

Religion doesn't have much to do with it, but it can be used to help a suicide bomber believe he will find a nice place after sacrificing himself... people will use any excuse to talk someone else into doing what they don't want to do themselves.

I'm also not sure where you got this association of Islam = terrorism... The IRA killed many more in the UK than any Islamic attack and they were Christian!!

Leave religion out of this, it's unrelated.

The websites on it then? i don't know what it's called, so i got the name wrong, what are the websites called that not available through google but through tor? Those are what i mean

Huh? That's the point of TOR... that you can't find the sites on google... that's what it was designed for.

There are lots of sites available through TOR.
 
I don't necessarily disagree - it just makes me chuckle to see the naive believe what we have now as some kind of uncensored utopia, both on and offline. If you think you're not censored every day both by big business who have slowly taken over the internet feeding the vast majority of people with the" truth", new and approved by whichever multi billion dollar company it is which serves it up and in every day "real life" then I have a bridge here I'd like to sell you.

How many of the anti censorship posters stomping off to the moral high ground here are prepared to demand protection for the rights of pedophiles, racists and terrorists to be able to promote their activities freely and recruit to their causes, or is it only oppressive censorship if it happens to impinge on your particular set of moral imperatives?

And that goes right back to my point about why terms like terrorists, paedophiles and racists are used so much by the government and those invested in this. It's difficult to argue against it's use when someone can just say you must be a terrorist sympathizer/paedophile if you don't agree with greater censorship and/or government control of the internet.

They are emotive terms used time and time again to push through draconian legislation that most people would rather not see pass. Legislation that is often left so open ended that the government can subsequently insert clauses and fairly major changes without having to go back to the legislature for approval.

That leaves us all in a situation where seemingly puritanical views are shaping what we can and cannot view, even though the acts themselves are perfectly legal.

To quote another poster here there is a spectrum with no black and white definitions and all we can do is make out best judgement at any given time. Should that be prescribed by the government, no. Should it be left in the hands of big business, no. Should we consider a mechanism for the online world to reflect the rules and consequences of the offline world? I don't know but I think there's a debate to be had there.

The problem is with legislation like IPA we are at a point now where mechanisms for the online world are way further ahead and draconian than the offline world. As I used in a previous example. The government have now legislated that ISPs should store all internet connections for a whole year, for every internet connection. The real world equivalent is something millions would be up in arms about.

You almost certainly need a warrant to put a tracking device in someones car, but for online movements not only are you not required to have one, you can view all of the data from the past year, not just from the moment you decide you want to track them.

You can see this as well in the governments insistance in the removal of encryption. In the real world there would be uproar if the government insisted it had the right to listen to every bodies conversations, but many seem quite happy with the same occurring online.

The internet and online world is becoming more and more integrated into people's daily routine and becoming almost as important to the real world for many people. We need regulation and enforcement sure. We need to be able to catch criminals using it sure, but we all need to respect the rights of people using it, just as we respect the rights of people in the real world. We don't track every movement people make, we don't monitor everyone's communications, we don't log every interaction between people just incase they may be useful in the future. It would be considered a massive invasion of privacy and akin to the Stasi.

We currently have a system where governments are doing things online that would never be allowed in the real world - everything from bulk data collection and logging to creation exploitation of backdoors into software. It's increasingly being shown to be dangerous yet governments (especially the UK and Turkish governments it seems) are ignoring it and insisting they are only trying to do things that are already done in the real world. It's ******** and they know it - hence the constant use of emotive terms like "terrorist" and "paedophile" to smother complaints.

As I said earlier the internet is basically an ocean in international waters. You can't control it without international agreement and no government should be able to control it, yet so many governments seem to believe they should. You can prosecute crimes when they occur on your shores sure, but currently certain countries are doing what is akin to the privateering in the 18th century.

Mays solution seems to be to ban everyone from leaving the UKs shores except with express permission of the government. The online equivelant of North Korea. And you wonder why people are up in arms against it?
 
They already can do it in the physical form as well, triangulation i think it is, if they suspect you of committing something heinous in the future then no doubt they will be watching you.

Seriously though, watch this documentary and then tell me what Homeland security are doing is wrong..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...-investigates-mums-selling-their-kids-for-sex

That's the point.

In the scenario you give the system works by finding a suspect, getting a warrant and then following their every move.

That's not how it's going to work on the internet. No one has any issue with suspects being tracked, people have an issue with wholesale collecting of data form millions on the offchance that someone may commit a crime in future.

The fact you keep glossing over that fact again and again is rather worrying. Either you just don't realize that, or you're intentionally glossing over it as you have no argument to put forth as to why it's ok in the virtual world but not in the physical world.

You've again fallen into the usual trap "won't someone think of the children". You're using the same get out clause as the government.
 
I really pity anyone going through my internet history for a day with entries for each time - just so far today 760 entries of which 221 would be visits to OcUK and that is just for starters.

Oh totally. There will be thousands of connections, from your accessing websites to your phone accessing services. Every time you get a whatsapp message, every time you load an app on your phone, every time you get an email.

Just looking through the data without any other clues you could probably tell what devices you own, where you live, what time you wake up, what time you leave for work, whether you worry about your health, what time you go to bed and a myriad more I'm sure.

The treasure trove of information will be sat on a server somewhere, an entire years worth of detailed information about your schedule, likes and dislikes. If that ever gets out it will make the last Talktalk data breach seem completely irrelevant, That was only phone numbers, addresses names and credit card details.

yea i don't disagree with the leaked stuff, like we've established, people have different views as to what is acceptable.

Why the leap to soviet era, the government can't afford to follow you around, if someone is trying to make bombs then im sure you want mind the government following him.

If they did have would you be happy for them to do so? I asked this before but never got an answer. The government have found a way of doing it for your online activities, which you believe is acceptable - so I can only assume you would be completely fine with having someone follow your every physical movement every day "just in case".

Yea but this gets back to a different point of view on Islam, do you think Islam is harmless?

The websites on it then? i don't know what it's called, so i got the name wrong, what are the websites called that not available through google but through tor? Those are what i mean

Presumably you mean the "dark web", which is just a word for parts of the internet that can't be searched by traditional internet browsers. That includes things like Tor pages, company/government/individuals servers and internal intranet pages amongst much more.

Presumably you're talking about pages specifically on Tor, not the other stuff? Those pages are specifically designed to only be accessible through Tor to help preserve anonymity and are used by a myriad of users, everything from human rights activists and campaigners (especially in counties with draconian web rules - increasingly the UK) to ordinary people, to criminals. Much like the "light" web. It's essentially a distributed VPN system where you can acces both "dark" pages and the ordinary web as well.
 
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Just as harmless as Christianity, Judaism, etc...

You do realise that both Christian and Jewish countries are murdering many many times more innocent people than Islamic countries?

Religion doesn't have much to do with it, but it can be used to help a suicide bomber believe he will find a nice place after sacrificing himself... people will use any excuse to talk someone else into doing what they don't want to do themselves.

I'm also not sure where you got this association of Islam = terrorism... The IRA killed many more in the UK than any Islamic attack and they were Christian!!

Leave religion out of this, it's unrelated.



Huh? That's the point of TOR... that you can't find the sites on google... that's what it was designed for.

There are lots of sites available through TOR.






Huh? That's the point of TOR... that you can't find the sites on google... that's what it was designed for.

There are lots of sites available through TOR.

So my point about censorship and that we have it, is correct? How has your freedom been taken away exactly? I just fundamentally disagree with your view that these people have it for you. I believe it's being done to protect it's citizens, you don't, fine.
 
That's not how it's going to work on the internet. No one has any issue with suspects being tracked, people have an issue with wholesale collecting of data form millions on the offchance that someone may commit a crime in future.

The fact you keep glossing over that fact again and again is rather worrying. Either you just don't realize that, or you're intentionally glossing over it as you have no argument to put forth as to why it's ok in the virtual world but not in the physical world.

You've again fallen into the usual trap "won't someone think of the children". You're using the same get out clause as the government.

I do realise it, i mean, i've read a lot about Snowden and stuff. What's changed though? I'm just not going to waste my time on it really, facebook is collecting data in huge amounts, do you still use facebook? I'll take my chances. If they start rounding up people in numbers then i'll get on the picket line.
 
I do realise it, i mean, i've read a lot about Snowden and stuff. What's changed though? I'm just not going to waste my time on it really, facebook is collecting data in huge amounts, do you still use facebook?

Facebook you have a choice to use it or not or how much to share with it - someone logging your internet connection doesn't give you the same options except to limit your use at a bigger scale.
 
I do realise it, i mean, i've read a lot about Snowden and stuff. What's changed though? I'm just not going to waste my time on it really, facebook is collecting data in huge amounts, do you still use facebook? I'll take my chances. If they start rounding up people in numbers then i'll get on the picket line.

So you'd be perfectly happy with someone following you round all day, logging where you went and who you saw/talked to on a daily basis?
 
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