Party support, why should it be for life?

[Ayahuasca]

Example?

Voting for a more fair society and reduced social divide is not selfish last time I looked ...

They're voting for policies that will benefit themselves foremost, very few are doing it for the greater good, take tuition fees for example, would we have seen the amount of students voting labour if they'd left the scrapping of fees out of their manifesto?

I never saw him being called an effint c u nxt tuesday? Plenty of that directed towards May on social media.

You weren't looking hard enough then.

 

[Rroff]

Succeeded in life ?

What if that child was brought up in poverty...they had no choice in being born at any moment in time and in any region of the UK...they were trapped in this state by the bourgeoisie

That's the problem...if we eradicated child poverty in the first place...reduced social divide and promoted equality it would be better for everyone.

As I said individuals - I'm certainly someone who has long advocated society being aware and fair of the circumstances people are born into so that they are trapped by the decisions and selfishness of those generations that went before them.

If people really care about a "fairer" society they should be (very) slightly right of centre leaning anyhow - left policies tend to drag everything downwards slightly in an effort to be fair - the slight right bias means the investment makes the overall world slightly a nicer place to live in even when you are down on your luck.

would we have seen the amount of students voting labour if they'd left the scrapping of fees out of their manifesto?

would we have seen the amount of students voting labour if they'd left the scrapping of fees out of their manifesto?

The interviews some were doing with those just old enough to vote for the first time seemed to indicate tuition fees were a major factor - most they talked to pretty much said the same thing that they felt alienated by the main two parties but didn't find Farron a convincing leader and the types of policies and outlook they were talking about fit a centrist party the most but often cited tuition fees as one of the most important things in deciding their vote.

 

[StriderX]

As I said individuals - I'm certainly someone who has long advocated society being aware and fair of the circumstances people are born into so that they are trapped by the decisions and selfishness of those generations that went before them.

If people really care about a "fairer" society they should be (very) slightly right of centre leaning anyhow - left policies tend to drag everything downwards slightly in an effort to be fair - the slight right bias means the investment makes the overall world slightly a nicer place to live in even when you are down on your luck.

Funny as the Tories dont invest in anything.

 

[Rroff]

Funny as the Tories dont invest in anything.

Tories lately have been increasingly leaning towards the far right (not just about state investment though other investment also has an effect on society).

EDIT: Also austerity had a very real reason to be employed at one point - though I don't agree with the way they've used it as a blanket policy to hide behind as it has the least chance of exploding in their lap if they get it wrong out of the options - I definitely think it is a tool that should be used discerningly.

 

[easyrider]

They're voting for policies that will benefit themselves foremost, very few are doing it for the greater good, take tuition fees for example, would we have seen the amount of students voting labour if they'd left the scrapping of fees out of their manifesto?
.

There were millions of young people voting students or not....

You're making it sound like the only reason a student voted for labour was the tuition fees?

 

[FoxEye]

They're voting for policies that will benefit themselves foremost, very few are doing it for the greater good, take tuition fees for example, would we have seen the amount of students voting labour if they'd left the scrapping of fees out of their manifesto?

In a deeply unfair society, voting for "fairness" shouldn't be considered "selfish". Even if it is beneficial to the voter.

 

[Ayahuasca]

There were millions of young people voting students or not....

You're making it sound like the only reason a student voted for labour was the tuition fees?

You asked for an example, I know there were millions of young voters but I've chosen students as potential individuals who voted solely on the tuition fee policy, not saying all of them did but it's very clear some have and disregarded everything else.

You on the other hand pretty much stated everyone who believes in conservatism is selfish.

 

[easyrider]

You asked for an example, I know there were millions of young voters but I've chosen students as potential individuals who voted solely on the tuition fee policy, not saying all of them did but it's very clear some have and disregarded everything else.

You on the other hand pretty much stated everyone who believes in conservatism is selfish.

Not buying that students only voted because of the TFees

Conservatism is just that....it protects personal wealth at the cost of others....

You only have to look how conservatism is an ideological state apparatus to contain and control the vunerable.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Not buying that students only voted because of the TFees

Conservatism is just that....it protects personal wealth at the cost of others....

You only have to look how conservatism is an ideological state apparatus to contain and control the vunerable.

So in your view it's as simple as voting tory makes you selfish, voting labour makes you unselfish?

What about a tory that pays more back into the system in a year than you will likely pay in your entire lifetime on top of say very substantial donations to charities. Are they still selfish?

 

[StriderX]

So in your view it's as simple as voting tory makes you selfish, voting labour makes you unselfish?

What about a tory that pays more back into the system in a year than you will likely pay in your entire lifetime on top of say very substantial donations to charities. Are they still selfish?

Yes, they'll be supporting the death of easy living conditions wrt to having a respectable abode over ones head.

 

[vincent1989]

This is the only election I've been able to vote in where I have voted the same as my parents and they still would have voted Green if the Brighton Kemptown candidate hadn't stepped aside for labour.

I didn't realise people voted the same way as their parents anymore, not out of some kind of fealty anyway. My cousin, even with a rabidly pro brexit dad, voted remain and she's about 10 years younger than I am.

I've never even voted for the same party twice in a general election. I look at what they're currently saying rather than dredging up too much of the past. I'm also unashamed to say that I've nearly always voted tactically. Lib dems because I wanted to fracture the 2 party system at the time, UKIP because I wanted to pressure the tories in to brexit and labour because I want to prevent the tories having a large majority.

 

[easyrider]

So in your view it's as simple as voting tory makes you selfish, voting labour makes you unselfish?

No, what I am saying is that conservatism at it's heart is all about increasing social class divide rather than reducing it.

If you think that's a good idea then fine...I personally don't.

What about a tory that pays more back into the system in a year than you will likely pay in your entire lifetime on top of say very substantial donations to charities. Are they still selfish?

While walking over homeless people in London....? That Tory could do so much more with his wealth if he voted labour..

 

[Ayahuasca]

While walking over homeless people in London....? That Tory could do so much more with his wealth if he voted labour..[/QUO

Ah I get you, so one has to cover all bases not be selfish, looks like as I said on the previous page, near enough everyone is selfish even in your own view and it has nothing to do with who they voted for.

 

[easyrider]

Ah I get you, so one has to cover all bases not be selfish, looks like as I said on the previous page, near enough everyone is selfish even in your own view and it has nothing to do with who they voted for.

Not at all...

The Green Party leans towards the environment
The Tory leans towards protecting individual wealth.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Not at all...

The Green Party leans towards the environment
The Tory leans towards protecting individual wealth.

It doesn't matter though as you're attributing selfishness in people down to who they vote for in an election and not their individual actions outside of that.

 

[dowie]

While walking over homeless people in London....? That Tory could do so much more with his wealth if he voted labour..

You don't think there is some personal responsibility there too? We have a welfare state/safety net. I don't think the philosophy that we need to grow the economy in order to fund this stuff is necessarily completely flawed.

 

[easyrider]

You don't think there is some personal responsibility there too? We have a welfare state/safety net. I don't think the philosophy that we need to grow the economy in order to fund this stuff is necessarily completely flawed.

Have you seen the film I'm Daniel Blake?

If not watch it...you'll see how the welfare state and safety net you mention is broken.

 

[FoxEye]

You don't think there is some personal responsibility there too? We have a welfare state/safety net. I don't think the philosophy that we need to grow the economy in order to fund this stuff is necessarily completely flawed.

Aren't we the 5th or 6th largest economy? We're not broke.

But the money in this country always finds its way to the top. Analysis of the QE money injected into the economy by the BoE found that most of it merely enhanced the wealth of the 1%. It failed utterly to "trickle down" to the working class.

Again, there is money in this country, and lots of it.

 

[easyrider]

Aren't we the 5th or 6th largest economy? We're not broke.

But the money in this country always finds its way to the top. Analysis of the QE money injected into the economy by the BoE found that most of it merely enhanced the wealth of the 1%. It failed utterly to "trickle down" to the working class.

Again, there is money in this country, and lots of it.

And the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

 

[dowie]

Have you seen the film I'm Daniel Blake?

If not watch it...you'll see how the welfare state and safety net you mention is broken.

And yet Labour didn't pledge to reverse benefits freezes and sanctions but instead scrapping tuition fees which would help richer people. If you were voting based on policy and want to cite Daniel Blake then the Lib Dems were the party to support. But you also need to grow the economy...