Tower block fire - london
- Thread starter robfosters
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I don't think tower 7 was affected by jet fuel directly also not sure this thread should really take the turn of discussing WTC atleast not at this point.
Soldato
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Out of all the threads this could have turned into, I didn't see a 911 conspiracy theory coming. It is weird how they acted differently, it's almost like they are different buildings and one got hit by a plane. 
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The problem with Piers Morgan is he's painted himself into a corner, so it's hard to tell the genuine anger from the showboating. But going after Gove like that isn't particularly helpful as it's mostly misplacing the blame and just a vehicle for a rant. The finger of blame seems to point more firmly to other ministers and local councillors. Had he had someone more directly implicated in ignoring safety warnings, this sort of grilling might have been more justified. So Gove just seems to be playing the role of sacrificial minister, because hey no-one much likes or trusts him anyway.
That said, I confess I got some grim satisfaction out of watching Gove's pouty reaction. He deserves a grilling, but for what he did to the Department Of Education and what he'll likely do to DEFRA, rather than this matter.
But I think this is all just symptomatic of the deep and smouldering anger and unease that a lot of people seem to be feeling about the abject failure of governance and leadership we've been forced to endure and the sheer exhaustion much of society is feeling from brutal austerity cuts and ever-widening inequality.
I think it's typical of society these days with rules taking precident over common sense, the idea that one rule fits every single situation. The rule will get amended until the next incident where it doesn't work and it will have to be changed again. We need to teach people to think for themselves and not just follow rules like robots.
In such a fire the first priority should have been total evacuation and worry about extinguishing the fire later.
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Piers Morgan just tried to milk publicity... the public is angry so Piers has a rant and a government minister to get some hits. Why is it Gove's fault or even the government's necessarily? We need to have the investigation before he starts dishing out blame.
Not sure if mentioned (this thread moves quickly), Conservative MP Ken Hawkins has just gotten himself suspended by the Tory party for a tweet saying "Let's get ourselves a hanging" attached to an image of people storming the council buildings. Conservative PR have come down on him like a tonne of bricks so he's not allowed to talk publically anymore, but to me that read as a comment on the mood of the mob that stormed the building. A not inaccurate comment, imo. He's being attacked by people for "suggesting that Grenfell tower victims should be hung", though. He seems to have become the lynchmob's own victim now.
EDIT: Ooops. My bad - he's a Tory Councillor, not an MP.
EDIT: Ooops. My bad - he's a Tory Councillor, not an MP.
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It does matter. They might not even be road legal here; there have been a number of examples of UK fire services purchasing large appliances (often built abroad) which, once loaded with equipment, weren't safe to drive or even legal to due to the weight. Then there's the reliability issues which seem to plague them too.
Now granted, that's largely down to poor decision-making but the point is, a vehicle suitable elsewhere in the EU isn't necessarily suitable here. Fire appliances aren't off-the-shelf vehicles, they're bespoke.
Have to agree 100%. These sort of programs at this this stage help no one, they never have and never will.
I wish that that will happen as well. History tells us though that it's very unlikely to happen. After the high rise building scandal's of the 1960's only 2 people were ever sent to prison. T Dan Smith(a councilor) and John Poulson(an architect). Both were jailed for corruption. When vast amounts of money and large company's and council officials are involved, history tells us they usually "walk".
I think times have changed the advent of social media and 24/7 news makes it much harder to brush things under the carpet I'm not convinced we will see total justice done but I think we will see more than in the past.
I know and understand exactly what you are saying. But social media, tv company's and any other media has no place speculating on something of this scale before any forensic teams have even been into the building. It's of no use to anyone other than the ratings.
I hope to god..............if he exists................that peeps will be jailed for this. But as i said earlier.................big money talks and the peeps will walk.
Well, we've just had heads of Barclays charged with fraudulent dealings related to the financial crash.....hopefully the openess of media nowadays is causing a change in the historical protections of the upper echelons wrong doing
Heard the same thing on the radio at work....................................and let's hope they get the punishment they deserve if guilty. Thing is though, that had nothing to do with the media and everything to do with some very good behind the scene investigation.
Not a reasonable comparison. The method of construction (And what it was trying to achieve) were totally different.
WTC was a structuaral steel building aimed at providing large, essentially single room, floors. To the extent that there was a cost failing it was that the architects failed to ensure a structurally robust and fireproof wall around the building central core (Stairwells and lift shafts) IIRC the stair wells were only surrounded by dry wall, reasonably fireproof but totally inadequate in the event of any sort of explosion.
But then, nobody anticipated a fire fed by hundreds of tons of aviation fuel...
WTC would have likely survived any "Normal" fire just fine.
Grenfell Tower was intended to provide lots of small rooms on each floor. from what I have gleaned, it was constructed using "In Situ Concrete" IE the main structure is essentially a single casting of steel reinforced concrete (Like Petronas Towers).
This sort of structure is essentially fireproof and will withstand very high temperatures without structural failure (As it clearly has done!)
The issue wasn't the building, it was was clearly what it was recently wrapped in.
AFAIAC this isnt a "Blame" thing, I am a bit Japanese about this. There is a problem here that needs to be resolved. It is likely that there are many other tower blocks that have been recently refurbished using similar materials.
THESE BUILDINGS CANNOT BE CONSIDERED SAFE!
There is a potentially massive and expensive problem to solve here and I really do not want resources wasted on trying to find people to blame...
Just now, If I was somebody who lived in one of these recently refurbished tower blocks I would be currently feeling very uncomfortable about going to sleep in my home.
I want every current resource put in to making very large numbers of people safe. The Lawyers can haggle over the corpses later...
Seeing as you seem clued up on this stuff, what brought down building 7?
A masssive amount of damage due to falling debris and a fire burning unchecked for hours.
Or aliens.
Take your pick.
Soldato
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shhh. Don't ask those sort of questions.
btw 1 trillion $ went missing, and building number 7 was apparently the backup location of the WTC.
Nothing suspicious.
Soldato
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It looked like a little camp fire from a single window.