Who makes the best auto boxes?

Jamesyboyjim · 27 Jun 2017 at 09:48

As above, I was chatting with my boss the other day about cars, he was saying he wants something new but only wants an auto but it has to be a good auto so only VAG, Mercedes or BMW. This got me thinking, are the Germans the only ones who can get a modern auto right or are they all as good as each other nowadays? Drove a new Focus recently and that seemed to shift when you'd expect and wouldn't change up too early so I wasn't sure why he felt this way, he certainly isn't looking for performance! Brand snobbery? Or are the 'premium German' brands really a step above with their gearboxes and if so, who rules the roost? I know opinion will come into play but I feel like it could be an interesting discussion.

killsta · 27 Jun 2017 at 09:49

Anybody who uses the latest ZF boxes.

This probably isn't Ford.

sovietspybob · 27 Jun 2017 at 09:55

Yeah the ZF 8 speed is very popular and used by a lot of manufactures like BMW, Merc, Jag to name a few, the new GM 9 speed is meant to be very good but not sure if anyone in Europe use it for anything. Ford are about to or just have brought out their new 10 speed which again will be very good. So yeah some manufactures make their own ala Audi with their DSG but a lot just buy them in from big transmission companies like ZF.

[TW]Fox · 27 Jun 2017 at 10:30

sovietspybob said:
Yeah the ZF 8 speed is very popular and used by a lot of manufactures like BMW, Merc, Jag to name a few

Mercedes do not use the ZF 8 speed. Audi do, though, but only on a few models as they insist on ruining everything with dsg.

pepp77 · 27 Jun 2017 at 10:35

The current Ford autobox is horrible (at least it is in a 1.6 non ecoboost), driving a Golf before and a BMW afterwards made the difference so obvious (to me at least).

Sirrel Squirrel · 27 Jun 2017 at 10:41

The ZF stuff is great. I had a Merc 7 speed in the last version of the ML350 courtesy car I had and it wasn't very good.

paradigm · 27 Jun 2017 at 10:58

[TW]Fox said:
Mercedes do not use the ZF 8 speed. Audi do, though, but only on a few models as they insist on ruining everything with dsg.

Not any more, DSG appears to be dying out on "normal" cars.

Gaygle · 27 Jun 2017 at 10:59

sovietspybob said:
So yeah some manufactures make their own ala Audi with their DSG but a lot just buy them in from big transmission companies like ZF.

Borg-Warner make the DSG boxes for VAG, albeit to their spec.

wesley · 27 Jun 2017 at 10:59

i dont think my ZF auto in my 2016 F30 320d is good as DSG gearbox in skoda fabia

DSG is incredible silky gearbox.

DSG is best one to get

[TW]Fox · 27 Jun 2017 at 11:00

Last time I checked you couldn't have an A6 with a proper gearbox unless you ordered s Hybrid or the BiTurbo V6. Has that changed?

wesley said:
i dont think my ZF auto in my 2016 F30 320d is good as DSG gearbox in skoda fabia

DSG is incredible silky gearbox.

This makes no sense at all.

wesley · 27 Jun 2017 at 11:05

i am allowed to have my own opinion. thank you fox

Nasher · 27 Jun 2017 at 11:07

Depends what you mean by "best". The most durable ones are the simpler torque converter types. But they aren't quite as quick.

[TW]Fox · 27 Jun 2017 at 11:14

wesley said:
i am allowed to have my own opinion. thank you fox

You are but in terms of smoothness the technical difference between a conventional autobox and a dsg will favour the conventional box - by contrast in terms of outright shift speed it will favour the dsg. This is why dsg was initially introduced for performance cars and why even today a dsg style box on a luxury car is rare.

I think we've had this discussion before and it turned out your dsg box was paired with a petrol engine and the zf8 with a 4 cylinder diesel which is probably a much bigger factor in the perceived difference.

paradigm · 27 Jun 2017 at 11:18

[TW]Fox said:
Last time I checked you couldn't have an A6 with a proper gearbox unless you ordered s Hybrid or the BiTurbo V6. Has that changed?

Actually I might be wrong, are the new 8-speed a dual-clutch still?

The new S4 appears to now have "tiptronic" as apposed to "S-Tronic".

Dangerous Dave · 27 Jun 2017 at 11:19

One thing that's different between the ZF boxes is the software. Jaguar must use the same software people that designed the infomatic system as it is noticeably slower/less smooth than Audi/BMW boxes

Firestar_3x · 27 Jun 2017 at 11:24

Dangerous Dave said:
One thing that's different between the ZF boxes is the software. Jaguar must use the same software people that designed the infomatic system as it is noticeably slower/less smooth than Audi/BMW boxes

Yes, Motortrend are always banging on about the Jag gearbox calibration vs the likes of BMW.

Dangerous Dave · 27 Jun 2017 at 11:36

paradigm said:
Actually I might be wrong, are the new 8-speed a dual-clutch still?

The new S4 appears to now have "tiptronic" as apposed to "S-Tronic".

The 8 speed boxes are ZF, the single turbo 3l diesel in the A4 also has the ZF box I expect the new A6 will move to this over the current 7 speed DSG

wesley · 27 Jun 2017 at 11:49

[TW]Fox said:
You are but in terms of smoothness the technical difference between a conventional autobox and a dsg will favour the conventional box - by contrast in terms of outright shift speed it will favour the dsg. This is why dsg was initially introduced for performance cars and why even today a dsg style box on a luxury car is rare.

I think we've had this discussion before and it turned out your dsg box was paired with a petrol engine and the zf8 with a 4 cylinder diesel which is probably a much bigger factor in the perceived difference.

im not saying ZF is a rubbish gearbox, sure i like it a lot. i just liked the DSG better overall.

i'll try get a drive test on X30d auto one day and see the comparison on smoothness gear changes to X20d auto

wesley · 27 Jun 2017 at 11:53

paradigm said:
Not any more, DSG appears to be dying out on "normal" cars.

what are 'normal' cars?

paradigm · 27 Jun 2017 at 11:58

In Audi terms, non-RS models.