Sale of petrol and diesel cars to be banned by 2040

Woden said:
Add a ballpark figure, how much would it cost to fully charge a car?
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amigafan2003 said:
A Tesla with a 32.33 KW/h long range battery would cost £3.52 to charge overnight on my energy plan.
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It depends on the car and how fast you drive but 1KWh gets you about 2.8-3.3 miles which is about 12.5p on a flat rate tariff these days.

So these are full charges from flat:

Nissan Leaf 30KW, costs about £3.75 for 90 (ish) miles.

Hyundai Ionic 28KW costs about £3.50 for 110 miles.

Tesla Model S:
60KW costs about £7.50 for 190 miles
75KW costs about £9.38 for 240 miles
90KW costs about £11.25 for 280 miles
100KW costs about £12.50 for 310 miles

It is worth pointing out there are losses when charging so the actual cost will be more but not a huge amount more.

For comparison doing 310 miles @ 60mpg with fuel costing around 115.9p/l it would cost £27.22

MadMossy said:
Rumours and/or leaked information about the Tesla Model 3 having ~250-310 mile range on a charge, if thats even slightly true then a £27k Electric car with that range would be incredible.
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It will be more like £27k+VAT less any electric car incentives. Base model has been said to have more than 215 miles of range but actual figures to be released any day.

The big plus on this car is supercharger access, makes it painless to drive the thing pretty much anywhere in Europe. There is also auto pilot which is a massive feature compared to every other car on the market currently. I would expect a fully loaded one with the biggest battery to be touching £38k-£40k +VAT depending on how Brexit goes. Auto pilot + pre purchasing full self driving functionality is a £4,700 + £2,800 options on a Model S. But both can be enabled after delivery for an extra £1000 on each to the option price.
 
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b0rn2sk8 said:
It depends on the car and how fast you drive but 1KWh gets you about 2.8-3.3 miles which is about 12.5p on a flat rate tariff these days.

So these are full charges from flat:

Nissan Leaf 30KW, costs about £3.75 for 90 (ish) miles.

Hyundai Ionic 28KW costs about £3.50 for 110 miles.

Tesla Model S:
60KW costs about £7.50 for 190 miles
75KW costs about £9.38 for 240 miles
90KW costs about £11.25 for 280 miles
100KW costs about £12.50 for 310 miles
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My night rate tarrif is 5.387p per kw, so to charge a 100kWh Model S would cost me £5.39 (realistically about 3% more as charging in not 100% efficient - can drop to only 90% efficient if quick charging, but you wouldn't do that very often).
 
amigafan2003 said:
My night rate tarrif is 5.387p per kw, so to charge a 100kWh Model S would cost me £5.39 (realistically about 3% more as charging in not 100% efficient - can drop to only 90% efficient if quick charging, but you wouldn't do that very often).
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Economy 7 would be very much worth it if you had an electric car but my post is really a worst case scenario.
 
amigafan2003 said:
My night rate tarrif is 5.387p per kw, so to charge a 100kWh Model S would cost me £5.39 (realistically about 3% more as charging in not 100% efficient - can drop to only 90% efficient if quick charging, but you wouldn't do that very often).
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It's no where near 100% depth of discharge anyway.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
It's no where near 100% depth of discharge anyway.
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I thought Tesla list it as 100 kWh rated (i.e. available to use), not total theoretical capacity, so 100 kWh takes into account 90% max charge, 20% reserve capacity - i.e. that 70% (90% - 20%) = 100 kWh.
 
amigafan2003 said:
I thought Tesla list it as 100 kWh rated (i.e. available to use), not total theoretical capacity, so 100 kWh takes into account 90% max charge, 20% reserve capacity - i.e. that 70% (90% - 20%) = 100 kWh.
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This'll become a huge marketing scandal as people slowly realise that different manufacturers are quoting different things for their kwh capacity and range estimates :p
 
amigafan2003 said:
I thought Tesla list it as 100 kWh rated (i.e. available to use), not total theoretical capacity, so 100 kWh takes into account 90% max charge, 20% reserve capacity - i.e. that 70% (90% - 20%) = 100 kWh.
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Kenai said:
This'll become a huge marketing scandal as people slowly realise that different manufacturers are quoting different things for their kwh capacity and range estimates :p
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This is normal for an electric car. The 100KW is the actual usable amount. The actual capacity will be slightly more, though the buffer is nothing like the % above. I don't believe there is any at the top end of the Tesla batteries capacity.

This comes down to the characteristics of the batteries. If you fully discharge a cell it will die or significantly reduce its capacity and will not be able to recover it. The software in the car stops you from being able to do this. Likewise if you keep a cell pegged at 100% it will deteriorate over time.

To get the most out of a Tesla they recommend for daily use to keep the car between 20% & 80% and then to charge to 90% or 100% when you need it.

Where as a leaf's battery actually has an additional ~3kW (10%) so you can leave it pegged at 100% and not worry about using every % for normal daily use.

This is mainly the reason why batteries in consumer electronics just do not last (especially phones). Manufactures squeeze out every last % possible to get the best 'talk time' numbers and there is little incentive to get them to last a long time because they want you to start thinking about an upgrade after 18 months. They also spend a lot of their lives pegged at 100% and then cycled (100% to low%) heavily which is basically the worst use case.

EV batteries are just not pushed anywhere near as hard, spend much more of their time in the ideal range and are managed much better by the software of the car.
 
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Just done a bit of googling, looks like your right and the reserve is taken out of the headline capacity so the actual usable amount of power is less. So on a 90D the battery the actual usable capacity is more like 81.8kW. Same concept on the leaf also.

I guess capacity doesn't actually matter and what matters is how far it will go and how fast it charges. The Ionic is a perfect example of that. It's battery is smaller than a Leaf but will drive further on a single charge.
 
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Efficiency varies considerably.

My Zoe will do anything from 2.5 to 5.2 miles per kWh depending on the weather, temperature, how I drive it, what the terrain is like.

That gives it a range of 56-117 miles. NEDC is 130 miles, but NEDC testing is totally unrealistic. EPA tends to be a better measure of typical use (in decent conditions).
 
Yes, if you want a decent estimate use the EPA range and knock a small amount off. NDEC just like all EU ICE MPG/Emission tests are just a complete waste of time and completely unrealistic.
 
Electric motorbikes make a lot of sense. But the problem again is range because you can't carry many batteries. At least you can still push it when they go flat though and you won't have to worry about when to turn the heating/AC off to reach the destination :p
 
An electric HGV is gonna be all batteries and take hours to charge. Will be interesting to see what this tesla hgv is
 
Surely a better work around for the issues of range and batteries would be to invest in solar powered road ways and over-the-air charging, running cars like a tram effectively.

Obvious issues at night but with increased battery efficiency the two systems would work very well together.
 
Porsche have got an electric programme.

Ferrari said awhile ago they are not doing electric but I can not see how that can be sustainable unless they just produce race cars.

From a drive train perspective it is very easy to make an electric car go very quickly and they need very little maintenance. So these established premium makes may come under pressure from new entrants to the market.
 
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