VW emissions recall, anyone had it?
- Thread starter FlyingFish
- Start date
My Golf passed it's MOT today, no emissions fix applied yet to my vehicle either. (1.6 TDI 2012 reg)
After watching Watchdog and the number of issues which all appear to be a result of the EGR working extra hard post-fix I'm going to refuse the fix until the MOT regulations tell me otherwise.
After watching Watchdog and the number of issues which all appear to be a result of the EGR working extra hard post-fix I'm going to refuse the fix until the MOT regulations tell me otherwise.
Soldato
Getting a few cases now where EGR valves are failing shortly after the update.
The EGR valves on these are problematic anyway. Any software change that works them more aggressively is likely to push a dying one off the perch. This would cause most/all of the issues that are being complained about.
In a sense. VAG is correct, The "Fix" is not so much causing problems as revealing them. The extent to which VAG should be held responsible for this on older cars that are out of warranty I dont know.
What is puzzling to me is that I was under the impression that the "Fix" was to remove the cheat software rather than to make the cars full comply with the emissions regulations under normal usage (Which might well be expected to make a big difference in performance and fuel economy)
So why is it changing the way the EGR is working?
Through work I was at a meeting with engineers from Wolfsburg on June 1, and very obviously the conversation came around to this topic.
Apparently the way that the fix reduces NOx means increasing soot, no way around it, that in turn then has to be burnt off in the DPF and to do that requires additional fueling, to burn off the additional soot produced.
To do this the software changes the injection pattern, so fuel is now pre-injected, followed by a main injection, followed by a 2nd main injection..
Problems have arisen when injectors were old, dirty or worn and where the EGR valve stem was worn, because the whole emmisions system is now working so much harder to provide extra fueling and burn off the extra soot.
So to deal with that extra fueling and soot and particulates, parts that otherwise were working well below their rated capacity are now working far nearer their rated capacity, none of the failed items returned to Wolfsburg and analysed, have been found to have been working over rated capacity as yet.
That is why as Orionaut said, VW are saying there is no direct relation between the software fix and part failures, because problems that would have occurred anyway eventually, are now occurring earlier, as the system is working harder.
Apparently the way that the fix reduces NOx means increasing soot, no way around it, that in turn then has to be burnt off in the DPF and to do that requires additional fueling, to burn off the additional soot produced.
To do this the software changes the injection pattern, so fuel is now pre-injected, followed by a main injection, followed by a 2nd main injection..
Problems have arisen when injectors were old, dirty or worn and where the EGR valve stem was worn, because the whole emmisions system is now working so much harder to provide extra fueling and burn off the extra soot.
So to deal with that extra fueling and soot and particulates, parts that otherwise were working well below their rated capacity are now working far nearer their rated capacity, none of the failed items returned to Wolfsburg and analysed, have been found to have been working over rated capacity as yet.
That is why as Orionaut said, VW are saying there is no direct relation between the software fix and part failures, because problems that would have occurred anyway eventually, are now occurring earlier, as the system is working harder.
Interesting, so they are removing the cheat AND trying to reduce emissions as well. I suppose that is reasonable.
However, this is inevitably going to change the performance and fuel consumption profile. So claiming it would make no difference is misleading.
It is also going to involve a more frequent DPF regenerations.
I imagine that owners with a mixed Highway/urban driving cycle will be more vulnerable to oil contamination and DPF failure (More frequent Regens resulting in a higher number of failed ones)
Ho Hummn.
Caporegime
Will keep avoiding the update for the wife's car then, doesn't sound great.
As has been said right from the start of this debacle.
Cannot see any conceivable advantage to the owner in carrying this out unless it becomes legally mandated.
The cars might even be worth more sold as not having been done...
Another reason not to do it, leaked documents from VW show the fix has had little or no real world difference in emissions. Essentially it's another test beater.
https://energydesk.greenpeace.org/2017/06/30/vw-fix-volkswagen-no-significant-difference-real-world/
https://energydesk.greenpeace.org/2017/06/30/vw-fix-volkswagen-no-significant-difference-real-world/
Caporegime
I might be missing something here, but the "cheat" was never "real world" either, it was designed to cheat emissions tests in certain laboratory conditions. So surely the "fix" should be removing the cheat, not addressing real-world performance.
Also, if the fix doesn't affect real world engine efficiency/performance/emissions, how can it manifest itself as failure of EGRs etc?
Also, if the fix doesn't affect real world engine efficiency/performance/emissions, how can it manifest itself as failure of EGRs etc?
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Why would it?
Because the test is still meant to be linked even if it doesn't represent real world. Hence when they were found to have zero coalition thanks to device they were found to be cheating. You would expect a reduction in a test to have a reduction in real world, even if the figures are totally different.
Coalitions are quite popular in Europe.
Caporegime
Not really, no. Given the way the cheat worked to detect being in laboratory conditions, and changing the engine mapping to suit, the only way the "fix" could make a difference is during the same conditions whereby previously the "cheat" would have been active. Real world engine mapping and performance was never in question, so likely hasn't been drastically changed.
real world figures 
- The EQUA air quality /Nox charts here make interesting reading showing the(EQUA air organisation) real world emissions compared to what their Euro classification is
- The EQUA air quality /Nox charts here make interesting reading showing the(EQUA air organisation) real world emissions compared to what their Euro classification isso the government (post brexit?) just need to modify road tax accordingly ?
Vehicle Excise Duty beyond the first year is not based on CO2 emissions anymore and it's pointless doing anything with cars already on the road as it serves no purpose.
This is interesting. I ended up getting my old Passat back at work and in the year it was out of my hands it had the update done. Now it may have had a hard life in that time but AFAIK it only covered about 6k miles. Anyway, since I got it back it smells like it is coal powered at idle. When swapping the cars around on the drive and it has been running for a few minutes I can smell it from 20 feet away. I thought it was just in my head but maybe there is something to it.
the site predominately mentions nox ?
but the current year one ved based on co2 could be shifted to real world nox/co2 combination,
... but I think we are waiting for the current government consultation, if local (labour) authorities aggressively discriminate against diesel in towns
real world figures
so the government (post brexit?) just need to modify road tax accordingly ?
I love how they gave my 2.0 petrol (gt86) an A rating. Same as a Prius. Yet because of the Euro ratings I'm paying £230 tax