Has anyone withdrawn their child from collective worship?

Johno please? · 19 Sep 2017 at 20:02

jpod said:
If religion is so good then let them reach the age of reason unmolested and let them decide for themselves.

Haha if only, there would hardly be any religious people if that was the case.

stewski · 19 Sep 2017 at 20:07

SexyGreyFox said:
I'm disgusted by some of the replies in this thread and now understand a lot of the disguised racism on here and other social media sites.
I'm 100% atheist but I wanted me and my kids to learn about the World and how to act around different cultures but it's clear some posters have no idea what's taught in class nowadays.
I also remind myself that as an atheist I am in a minority where the majority believe in some kind of God.

What evidence do you base that on?
When was the last time you were in an RE lesson or Collective worship in school, my last experience was less than 5 years ago.

stewski · 19 Sep 2017 at 20:30

A pretty good info graphic on how religious the UK may or may not be below!

In 2011 25% reported No religion on the census, up around 10% from the 15% reported in 2001.

However the census question is "What is your religion?" followed by a bunch of boxes, one of which is no religion.

yougov polls have found a very different set of results when asking "are you religious?"
with 65% of people reporting No in March 2011.

At this point I'm not convinced there is good evidence that the majority of people in the UK are religious or believe in a god(s).

TallPaul1878 · 19 Sep 2017 at 20:41

There is a big difference between asking "what is your religion" and "are you religious"

For me the answers are Catholic and no.

Most people will identify as a Christian in this country, there are not many who go out of their way to disassociate themselves culturally from Christianity.

But there are a great many, like myself, who have been born into Christianity but are non practicing or have become agnostic.

Globally religious participation is growing with China on track to become the world's biggest Christian country. It is only in the west specifically that atheism has a foothold.

dowie · 19 Sep 2017 at 21:08

identifying as an atheist would put the other poster in a minority, lack of belief in 'god' perhaps not - this is a bit different to questions of being religious and affiliation with religions though

IIRC

the majority of people in the UK believe in god or a spiritual power (tbh.. 'god' isn't exactly well defined but if people want to make a distinction between those two things then meh)

only a minority have no belief in god or a spiritual power

stewski · 19 Sep 2017 at 21:29

Two interesting posts but both without sources!
Do people in China believe in God/god(s) Christian as a majority or even significant percentage specifically would surprise me, I'd be interested in the source of such data!

As for god or a spiritual power and supposed minority of atheism etc also with no source!

In a 2011 YouGov poll, 34% of UK citizens said they believed in a God or gods.[70]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-YouGov.2FCambridge_2011-70
There are various polls with various question but frankly atheism is a lack of belief or not believing in one or more gods, the poll above indicated a majority atheist position.

Variety of question aside Presented with the option, which religion are you, 25% on the last census said none and a not insignificant additional 7% refused to identify!
This is at least a 10% change over a period of 10 years in people even being willing/not willing to associate themselves with a specific religion let alone belief in god(s) which if yougov is even vaguely accurate, belief in god(s) was a minority position the same year as the census!

dowie · 19 Sep 2017 at 21:45

here is the source I'd seen/was recalling: yougov

as far as the UK is concerned one third don't believe in a god or a spiritual greater power, 52% believe in God or a spiritual power (32% believing in God and 20% some sort of spiritual greater power - I'm not really sure of the distinction but presumably the categories exist because others make one)

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/02/12/third-british-adults-dont-believe-higher-power/

so as I said:

dowie said:
identifying as an atheist would put the other poster in a minority, lack of belief in 'god' perhaps not - this is a bit different to questions of being religious and affiliation with religions though

whether lack of belief in 'god' puts you in a minority I guess depends on how you treat those who don't believe in 'god' but do believe in a spiritual greater power...

lack of belief of a spiritual greater power (including 'God') does put one in a minority though

personally I don't see much distinction between belief in 'some sort of spiritual greater power' and belief in 'God' as 'God' isn't exactly well defined, but as others do draw this distinction I've not claimed that lack of belief in 'god' alone puts the poster in a minority. Identifying as an Atheist would seem to put him in a minority though.

SexyGreyFox · 21 Sep 2017 at 19:35

dowie said:
only a minority have no belief in god or a spiritual power

Exactly, I'm in a tiny minority being an atheist so therefore it does me good to know about other cultures/beliefs so I don't offend.
Taking your kids out of RE is ridiculous, I must confess when my eldest started High School at 11 (now aged 30) I went to talk to the RE teacher and then realised RE wasn't like when I went to school.

dowie · 22 Sep 2017 at 00:04

Just to clarify you're making that as a general point right? The OP hasn't taken his kids out of RE but just collective worship - i.e. the religious assemblies where they sing hymns etc.. if it is a C of E school

Dirk Diggler · 22 Sep 2017 at 08:51

SexyGreyFox said:
I'm in a tiny minority being an atheist

In what context, your household? Because in Scotland, you'd be in the majority. The rest of the UK can't be much different to the point of "tiny minority"?

Dirk Diggler · 22 Sep 2017 at 08:56

TallPaul1878 said:
There is a big difference between asking "what is your religion" and "are you religious"

For me the answers are Catholic and no.

You're an atheist that can't fully admit it, surely? You can't be Catholic and non-religious.

SexyGreyFox · 22 Sep 2017 at 10:08

String said:
In what context, your household? Because in Scotland, you'd be in the majority. The rest of the UK can't be much different to the point of "tiny minority"?

I don't care about Scotland or the UK, take the world as a whole and see how many people from India, Pakistan, South America etc are atheists.
Some may not follow the religion but they still believe in a higher power.
I was quite surprised at a party last year where religion was brought up. There were only two atheists in the room and even my own wife who I've been with for 43 years said she believed there's 'something out there'. I was shocked to be honest because she is totally non religious.

The original post is about collective worship, we already know how to treat UK citizens so it does us good to learn about other cultures.

wolfie138 · 22 Sep 2017 at 10:36

TallPaul1878 said:
There is a big difference between asking "what is your religion" and "are you religious"
For me the answers are Catholic and no.
Most people will identify as a Christian in this country, there are not many who go out of their way to disassociate themselves culturally from Christianity.
But there are a great many, like myself, who have been born into Christianity but are non practicing or have become agnostic.

don't follow you. if you're not religious then surely you don't have a religion? i was baptised, i in no way consider myself christian. if you're non-practicing or agnosting, why do you say you're catholic?

Dirk Diggler · 22 Sep 2017 at 13:14

SexyGreyFox said:
I don't care about Scotland or the UK

Oh, right. I thought the conversation was about a school in the UK and the subsequent use of the legal system to beat the bigots within the UK system? In fact, I've checked back where I quoted you; you were talking about the UK not the world.

Edit: this is what you quoted when agreeing that you were in the minority:

dowie said:
the majority of people in the UK believe in god or a spiritual power

What are you or @dowie basing this on? Scotland has been surveyed and the majority are non religious, is Scotland really so far ahead of the UK?

As for India & Pakistan, they believe in all sorts of nonsense and India in particular believe in doing da poopoo in the street. I'm not comparing myself to any of that backward mentality.

TallPaul1878 · 22 Sep 2017 at 17:09

wolfie138 said:
don't follow you. if you're not religious then surely you don't have a religion? i was baptised, i in no way consider myself christian. if you're non-practicing or agnosting, why do you say you're catholic?

Because I was Christened as a Catholic, my children are Christened as Catholic but I'm non practising and I remain agnostic.

TallPaul1878 · 22 Sep 2017 at 17:11

String said:
You're an atheist that can't fully admit it, surely? You can't be Catholic and non-religious.

You can't tell me what I am either.

Dirk Diggler · 22 Sep 2017 at 17:30

TallPaul1878 said:
You can't tell me what I am either.

In this particular exchange I can. You're claiming to be a Catholic yet non religious. It's an absurd statement. When was the last time you received Holy Communion? Actually, when was the last time you attended mass?

Ahleckz · 22 Sep 2017 at 17:49

As an atheist, and brought up in an agnostic household I loved RME. It was one of my favourite subjects. I enjoyed learning about other religions and cultures, and taking a trip around the world in that classroom. Plus, from 4th year there was a real emphasis on philosophy as well as questions of morality. Learning about the classical theologians and philosophers really helped understand the world that bit more.
Say what you want about religion, it has shaped every culture and people across the world and without an understanding of it it's difficult to truly understand others.

I did often speak out against forced religious themed assemblies and visits to the local church which were exclusively COS. I continually asked why we didn't have an Iman, Rabbi or someone other than a representative from the COS. Never did I get a proper answer though. Introducing children to other religions, cultures and peoples and teaching them about it can only be a good thing.

TallPaul1878 · 22 Sep 2017 at 18:13

String said:
In this particular exchange I can. You're claiming to be a Catholic yet non religious. It's an absurd statement. When was the last time you received Holy Communion? Actually, when was the last time you attended mass?

No you can't, your opinion is irrelevant to me. I will identify myself in any way I choose to as is my prerogative. If you cannot accept that then the problem lies with you.

SexyGreyFox · 22 Sep 2017 at 18:21

String said:
Oh, right. I thought the conversation was about a school in the UK and the subsequent use of the legal system to beat the bigots within the UK system? In fact, I've checked back where I quoted you; you were talking about the UK not the world.

A big sorry for not reading his post correctly.
I'm talking about world religions/cultures and the importance of allowing our children to be able to be schooled on them otherwise they will all end up like the bigots on here & Facebook where they have no idea and post ridiculous stuff.
eg "Why don't Muslims apologise for the terrorist acts of other Muslims?" - well do a bit of RE and you might find out.