Both RX Vega 64 & 56 Beat GTX 1080 Ti in Forza 7 DX12 benchmarks

h4rm0ny · 17 Oct 2017 at 14:09

silversurfer said:
Not sure if its too late now but the 480 was a great sell earlier this year and then a swap to the Vega at launch. I believe at one point the two cards were the same price, market vs retail. This is what the forum is for really, we should have been allowed to post full screen flashing Neon GIF at that point because that was the best deal ever.

AMD isnt producing enough cards. My guess is they upped or switched more production capacity to the 580 and they cannot easily throw out a ton of Vega. If they are trying to make more Vega maybe the extra processing steps in production lines from having to fix in HBM means it'll be xmas before we see so much stock that it actually matches the proper retail price

Thanks. Seems like it's going to be horribly pricey for a good while yet.

shankly1985 · 17 Oct 2017 at 14:36

Gregster said:
Ohhh, the way you was going on, I assumed you owned it. Not sure why you are so adamant that HardOCP is not to be trusted and you need video footage to stop you being 'very confused' but I guess your agenda dictates that.

Edit:

My kind of thread in truth though - Lots of talking points and lots of hyperbole I genuinely was pleased that Vega64 beat the Ti but surely we all knew it was just a case of drivers?

Did I say I don't trust them? All I saying is I like to see videos benchmarks. They tell a bigger picture.

five8five · 17 Oct 2017 at 15:30

shankly1985 said:
All I saying is I like to see videos benchmarks. They tell a bigger picture.

I"m not convinced an uploaded recorded video that's being streamed is the best way to compare visuals because everyone is unique and sees things differently. Heck, my left eye and right eye see colours slightly differently!

The overlay of frame rates / times on videos are good though.

w1ze1 · 17 Oct 2017 at 16:08

I have a good eye IMO but I never see much diff from 2 photos or videos on a website or Youtube.

LoadsaMoney · 17 Oct 2017 at 16:09

five8five said:
There are plenty of Vega 56s and 64s in stock though. Have a look at the OCUK shop -

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/pc-components/graphics-cards/amd/radeon-rx-vega-56
Three of the five 56s have 10+ in stock.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/pc-components/graphics-cards/amd/radeon-rx-vega-64
and four of the 64s have 10+ in stock.

They are in stock everywhere, they just aren't selling due to the stupid pricing, as who would take a liqud cooled ref Vega 64, over a much faster custom 1080 Ti thats got more memory, for the same price, and who would take a ref 56, over a faster 1080, for the same price, or a one over a custom OC'd 1070, for around the same performance as it, but is much, much cheaper.

Even the ref air cooled 64 isn't worth buying, as thats even more expensive than a custom 1080.

Also, Vega needs an absolute ton more power than the Nvidia cards, and is much, much hotter.

If the ref cards that are more expensive than Nvidias much faster custom ones are not selling, then the even more expensive AIB cards aren't going to sell, so im not surprised we havn't seen any yet.

I can't wait to see the price of that Strix if it ever gets released.

shankly1985 · 17 Oct 2017 at 16:09

five8five said:
I"m not convinced an uploaded recorded video that's being streamed is the best way to compare visuals because everyone is unique and sees things differently. Heck, my left eye and right eye see colours slightly differently!

The overlay of frame rates / times on videos are good though.

I not comparing image quality, never can do on YouTube. Like you said just the frame rates and frame times.

Razor Time · 17 Oct 2017 at 16:34

shankly1985 said:
I not comparing image quality, never can do on YouTube. Like you said just the frame rates and frame times.

Hardocp has detailed graphs showing frame rates.

Gregster · 17 Oct 2017 at 22:10

shankly1985 said:
Did I say I don't trust them? All I saying is I like to see videos benchmarks. They tell a bigger picture.

Well you are stating you need to see video evidence, so if that is the case, that is why I say you don't trust them. I feel you just want to cling on to Vega doing well and will try and pick something up in a video. Desperate really and you should just buy the game and play it, as frames are good on AMD and NVidia from the looks of things.

shankly1985 · 17 Oct 2017 at 22:35

Gregster said:
Well you are stating you need to see video evidence, so if that is the case, that is why I say you don't trust them. I feel you just want to cling on to Vega doing well and will try and pick something up in a video. Desperate really and you should just buy the game and play it, as frames are good on AMD and NVidia from the looks of things.

I don't need video evidence to correct them!! All I would like is to see raw footage to compare.

TonyTurbo78 · 17 Oct 2017 at 22:58

shankly1985 said:
Don't own Forza 7 not into sim racers

It's not a sim, it's way off from that

. It's Forza horizon 3 but on circuits

shankly1985 · 17 Oct 2017 at 23:33

TonyTurbo78 said:
It's not a sim, it's way off from that . It's Forza horizon 3 but on circuits

Yeah, it's circuit racing that bores me. I like the over the top car games like Horizons. The Burnout series was some my all time favourite car games.

jigger · 18 Oct 2017 at 14:56

mingey said:
Just waiting for someone to pop in, not mentioning names and say "Vega is still faster" even after HardOCP re-review

Why are people still posting links showing AMD has the faster hardware and claiming Nvidia win

five8five · 18 Oct 2017 at 18:32

jigger said:
Why are people still posting links showing AMD has the faster hardware and claiming Nvidia win

You obviously haven't read the review being discussed :rolleyes:

Gregster said:
The Bottom Line

AMD had the win for a couple of weeks, in Forza Motorsport 7, and NVIDIA put an end to that quickly. It shows what competition brings, when there is competition it sparks motivation. AMD Radeon RX Vega has been good for the consumer as it has sparked a response from the competition.

Sadly, for Radeon RX Vega, that spark was met with this new NVIDIA GeForce 387.92 driver which has improved Forza Motorsport 7 performance on average by 15% on 10 series GeForce GPUs. It has turned the tables and put GeForce GPUs on top at 4K. However, at 1440p the video cards are more evenly matched. GeForce GTX 1080 and Radeon RX Vega 64 are equal in performance at 1440p in Forza Motorsport 7. GeForce GTX 1070 and Radeon RX Vega 56 are equal in performance at 1440p in Forza Motorsport 7.

Click to expand...

five8five · 18 Oct 2017 at 18:37

shankly1985 said:
I not comparing image quality, never can do on YouTube. Like you said just the frame rates and frame times.

Fair enough but detailed frame rates are included in the review (not just averages) and frame times are discussed as well?

shankly1985 · 18 Oct 2017 at 19:47

five8five said:
Fair enough but detailed frame rates are included in the review (not just averages) and frame times are discussed as well?

That's not Frametimes shown mate, that is only FrameRate data! Point in Point Take alook at this DF screenshot Notice how the i5 8600k FPS is indeed higher, but look at the FrameTimes on the Ryzen 5 they less Jumpy = smoother gameplay.

chroniclard · 18 Oct 2017 at 19:52

HardOCP graphs are rubbish and hard to read, think they just want to be different.

five8five · 18 Oct 2017 at 20:56

shankly1985 said:
That's not Frametimes shown mate, that is only FrameRate data! Point in Point Take alook at this DF screenshot Notice how the i5 8600k FPS is indeed higher, but look at the FrameTimes on the Ryzen 5 they less Jumpy = smoother gameplay.

Explanation from the review https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/10/16/forza_motorsport_7_video_card_performance_update

PresentMon

A note about PresentMon. Due to this game not supporting "Exclusive" full screen support, we cannot use Mirillis Action! Therefore, we must use PresentMon to capture UWP DX12 gaming in Windows 10. PresentMon captures data differently than other known framerate capture applications. PresentMon captures faster than each framerate in one second, it captures frametime in fractions of a second. We then convert those frametimes to framerate.

However, not everything you see is actually the framerate felt or delivered in-game. There are fluctuations that go wildly high, or low, these are not felt during gaming. We remove the maximum and minimum framerate table because it is not representative of what is experienced. However, the average framerate is still accurate, and is what we experience in terms of average framerate.

Therefore, what you should focus on is the average framerate, and the consistency of the framerate. In the graph what you are looking at is frametime converted to framerate. Hopefully this should clear up some confusion about PresentMon. There is currently no way to force PresentMon to sample every one second, it would solve a lot of problems, but the program is currently limited in that way. Basically, it’s the best we got right now at representing performance on a graph for UWP Windows 10 DX12 games.

In fact, if you look at the "consistency" of the framerate Radeon RX Vega 64 is better compared to the more "wild" GeForce GTX 1080 frames. Again, both feel the same though in our real-world gaming. Both provide excellent gaming experiences in Forza Motorsport 7.

We also wanted to include GeForce GTX 1070 and AMD Radeon RX Vega 56 at 1440p for a more complete picture. Technically we find GTX 1070 2% faster than Vega 56. Here it seems both video cards are in fact identical in performance on average in Forza Motorsport 7.

In the graph you will note that there are areas of the circuit map where one card is faster than the other, and then they flip flop. For example, between the 3000 to 6000 seconds marks on the graph, Vega 56 is clearly faster. However, at the end from 8000 seconds on, the GTX 1070 is faster in Forza Motorsport 7, and has better consistency in frametime.

We have no idea what is different about these areas, while gaming we didn’t feel or notice any differences and nothing visually that would indicate why one would be faster than the other there. While as odd as that is, in reality the average performance is the same between the cards and they feel exactly the same while gaming.

shankly1985 · 18 Oct 2017 at 22:16

five8five said:
Explanation from the review https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/10/16/forza_motorsport_7_video_card_performance_update

Nice read, thanks.
Although I would still like to see video footage to showcase these min frames.
Avg Frame rate isn't what makes a game smooth..

This might just be me though. Am not disagreeing with there method.

Bazzards · 18 Oct 2017 at 22:26

Blime, just enjoy your card rather than try to pick holes.

D.P. · 19 Oct 2017 at 02:18

shankly1985 said:
Nice read, thanks.
Although I would still like to see video footage to showcase these min frames.
Avg Frame rate isn't what makes a game smooth..

This might just be me though. Am not disagreeing with there method.

The problem is minimums in themselves also don't tell you much about the actual smoothness,often thry are just statistical outliers and can be a result of background tasks on the FLU rather than the actual GPU load