GPU prices go boom

[LoadsaMoney]

Once there is better miner hardware people should move over to that if they want to make a profit. But people sometimes don't make good decisions (Trump) so we'll see when Sensible Town returns.

Linus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM1vaHflxFE

Its still cost per frame that matters. I've got plenty of as yet unplayed games in Steam library waiting for a future worthy monitor and graphics card.

Anyone else think he looks like CaitlinV3

 

[Frozennova]

If work choose to give me a raise that's their decision that isn't greed on my part. I've never asked for a raise. I don't invest either. As it stands I earn enough to cover my bills and save a little for emergencies and hobbies.

Money isn't a massive motivator for me though. I'd rather do a days volunteering for a charity or good cause than do a days overtime at work. Far more rewarding for me personally.

I like buggering around playing with new hardware and coding projects.

Dabbling in mining and running mining pools gives me both of those things while paying for itself.

 

[Killer7xx]

Making them crap at mining makes them also terrible at professional work loads and reduces gaming performance

Technically it's feasible though. They could "gimp" the cards just enough to deter miners from purchasing them. Along with some slightly shady business antics, both AMD and Nvidia could profit even more by doing so.

Nvidia and AMD are the only players in the desktop discrete GPU market, they could come to an agreement to market their geforce and RX cards as being "gaming optimised" or some bs along those lines. Those cards would only have driver optimisations for games and nothing else, no professional apps, no more openCL or CUDA optimisation. BIOS would be completely locked down and unflashable, even for non reference cards. Maybe even no overclocking/undervolting without setting off a hardware fuse and rendering the warranty invalid.

Meanwhile, they include those missing features in their new workstation cards which have a much higher profit margin for them. The desperate miners and those who require the optimised compute functionality will still buy them, but it will largely kill the mining industry due to the huge startup costs compared to before.

It would be a very "evil" move but it would deter miners from purchasing gaming cards as the workstation cards would have a great deal better hashrate and tweakability. Gamers would have to use locked down cards but it's still a better than the current situation where there are very few GPUs available. Maybe it's a tactic for Intel when they release their discrete GPUs, they have shown in the past that they are willing to use every trick in the book as long as it profits for them so I definitely wouldn't put it past them.

 

[Frozennova]

Technically it's feasible though. They could "gimp" the cards just enough to deter miners from purchasing them. Along with some slightly shady business antics, both AMD and Nvidia could profit even more by doing so.

Nvidia and AMD are the only players in the desktop discrete GPU market, they could come to an agreement to market their geforce and RX cards as being "gaming optimised" or some bs along those lines. Those cards would only have driver optimisations for games and nothing else, no professional apps, no more openCL or CUDA optimisation. BIOS would be completely locked down and unflashable, even for non reference cards. Maybe even no overclocking/undervolting without setting off a hardware fuse and rendering the warranty invalid.

Meanwhile, they include those missing features in their new workstation cards which have a much higher profit margin for them. The desperate miners and those who require the optimised compute functionality will still buy them, but it will largely kill the mining industry due to the huge startup costs compared to before.

It would be a very "evil" move but it would deter miners from purchasing gaming cards as the workstation cards would have a great deal better hashrate and tweakability. Gamers would have to use locked down cards but it's still a better than the current situation where there are very few GPUs available. Maybe it's a tactic for Intel when they release their discrete GPUs, they have shown in the past that they are willing to use every trick in the book as long as it profits for them so I definitely wouldn't put it past them.

Possibly, and killl potentially millions of $ in revenue overnight. I don't care how people want to spin it, no manufacture of any product would reduce their target market by 25-50% overnight just to keep the minority happy.

Like someone highlighted earlier the average person (Ignore the people on these forums they're an exception) spends £2-300 every 2-3 years on a GPU. The average miner is spending that every 2-8 weeks, who in their right mind cuts off that kind of market

 

[Scramz]

I think that nicely illustrates the mindset (greed) of some miners.

Again mining with a bunch of GPUs is not greed. I bet if you/most people had access to a large number of GPUs you would be doing the same. It just an extra income which requires a risky investment to better ones position in the world or for their family. Its a market.

 

[Scramz]

How many cards do you have now?

If you mine with 1-4 cards (eg) that's one thing... it's the people who just keep adding more and more cards seeing $$$ in their eyes that are the problem.

I add cards weekly, why is that a problem in an open market?

 

[bru]

Possibly, and killl potentially millions of $ in revenue overnight. I don't care how people want to spin it, no manufacture of any product would reduce their target market by 25-50% overnight just to keep the minority happy.

Like someone highlighted earlier the average person (Ignore the people on these forums they're an exception) spends £2-300 every 2-3 years on a GPU. The average miner is spending that every 2-8 weeks, who in their right mind cuts off that kind of market

So what if AMD/NVIDIA just decided to say stuff you lot and use the cards for mining themselves and not sell them to us at all.

Just think of all the cards a they could have mining, and not having to deal with pesky customers, just sit back and watch the profits roll in.

Of course there would be no more future generations of cards for us gamers but why would they care.

 

[Scramz]

So what if AMD/NVIDIA just decided to say stuff you lot and use the cards for mining themselves and not sell them to us at all.

Just think of all the cards a they could have mining, and not having to deal with pesky customers, just sit back and watch the profits roll in.

Of course there would be no more future generations of cards for us gamers but why would they care.

They would make much more revenue from sell GPUs rather than mining with them.

 

[Killer7xx]

Possibly, and killl potentially millions of $ in revenue overnight. I don't care how people want to spin it, no manufacture of any product would reduce their target market by 25-50% overnight just to keep the minority happy.

Like someone highlighted earlier the average person (Ignore the people on these forums they're an exception) spends £2-300 every 2-3 years on a GPU. The average miner is spending that every 2-8 weeks, who in their right mind cuts off that kind of market

It's not like GPUs don't sell without miners. Besides selling the higher profit margin workstation cards will somewhat offset the decrease in profit from not having their entire gaming card stock sold out.

As it goes, AMD and Nvidia are not taking full advantage of the situation even with their inventories sold out. They are still selling their GPUs for what is peanuts to the the board partners who manufacture the cards and sell to distributors who largely mark up the prices or sell direct to miners. Whereas with workstation cards, they are sold directly by AMD and Nvidia and have much higher margins. The workstation equivalent of the RX 470 retails for around £350 msrp which is around 2X the msrp of the rx 470.

 

[Zeed]

Tbh im Laughing at this situation. Remember 1 year ago when cards bern at rrp. And 90% people whined its too much and they will wait few months for price drop?? Or for secobd cards from miners (it will never happen) ??

Well here we are year later. And people that jumped on new gpus are yhe winners. My mate got hes 1070 for 300 quid new. I picked up titan my other mates 1080s.

And way its going cheaper cards wont show up for few months lol

 

[Killer7xx]

They would make much more revenue from sell GPUs rather than mining with them.

They only really make money by selling the GPU chips to the board partners. After paying gloFo and TSMC, I don't think they actually profit as much from the chips as people think. Certainly they are not making even 30% of the current price of a 1080Ti each time one of those are sold. They probably sell those chips for around £100-150 to board partners who then manufacture the cards and sell to distributors for most likely around £300-400. Retailers then mark up to £500 and then after VAT, it's £600 to the end buyer.

 

[melmac]

If work choose to give me a raise that's their decision that isn't greed on my part. I've never asked for a raise. I don't invest either. As it stands I earn enough to cover my bills and save a little for emergencies and hobbies.

Money isn't a massive motivator for me though. I'd rather do a days volunteering for a charity or good cause than do a days overtime at work. Far more rewarding for me personally.

But you are making the blanket statement that miners are just greedy.

If you are making enough money, you should turn down the raise. Accepting it is just greedy. But I bet you don't. And I bet if you were working somewhere for a few years and didn't get a raise you would be thinking about changing jobs.

And how do you know that miners aren't helping out other people? Just because they buy a few extra GPUs?

 

[Zeed]

Technically it's feasible though. They could "gimp" the cards just enough to deter miners from purchasing them. Along with some slightly shady business antics, both AMD and Nvidia could profit even more by doing so.

Nvidia and AMD are the only players in the desktop discrete GPU market, they could come to an agreement to market their geforce and RX cards as being "gaming optimised" or some bs along those lines. Those cards would only have driver optimisations for games and nothing else, no professional apps, no more openCL or CUDA optimisation. BIOS would be completely locked down and unflashable, even for non reference cards. Maybe even no overclocking/undervolting without setting off a hardware fuse and rendering the warranty invalid.

Meanwhile, they include those missing features in their new workstation cards which have a much higher profit margin for them. The desperate miners and those who require the optimised compute functionality will still buy them, but it will largely kill the mining industry due to the huge startup costs compared to before.

It would be a very "evil" move but it would deter miners from purchasing gaming cards as the workstation cards would have a great deal better hashrate and tweakability. Gamers would have to use locked down cards but it's still a better than the current situation where there are very few GPUs available. Maybe it's a tactic for Intel when they release their discrete GPUs, they have shown in the past that they are willing to use every trick in the book as long as it profits for them so I definitely wouldn't put it past them.

I cant see how AMD could benefit atm with their gpu offer cant see anybody but miner and hardcore amd fans buying their cards.

 

[Scramz]

They only really make money by selling the GPU chips to the board partners. After paying gloFo and TSMC, I don't think they actually profit as much from the chips as people think. Certainly they are not making even 30% of the current price of a 1080Ti each time one of those are sold. They probably sell those chips for around £100-150 to board partners who then manufacture the cards and sell to distributors for most likely around £300-400. Retailers then mark up to £500 and then after VAT, it's £600 to the end buyer.

In the volumes they sell at they are making a lot more money than using them to mine.

 

[Zeed]

But you are making the blanket statement that miners are just greedy.

If you are making enough money, you should turn down the raise. Accepting it is just greedy. But I bet you don't. And I bet if you were working somewhere for a few years and didn't get a raise you would be thinking about changing jobs.

And how do you know that miners aren't helping out other people? Just because they buy a few extra GPUs?

Well miners are creating job places after all someone needs to produce pack and ship the cards.

 

[melmac]

Found this interesting

https://twitter.com/jwangARK/status/954429531678543872

TSMC are producing wafers for Miners directly.

 

[DarrenM343]

I think that nicely illustrates the mindset (greed) of some miners.

A lot of us realise that being a productive member of society, with a real job, doesn't make you a "mug". Just as we all depend on people performing jobs for us, none of us have a right to "opt-out" of doing jobs for other people. The idea that you are a "mug" unless you find a way to do nothing for a living is truly, truly sad and is nothing more than greed and selfishness.

Get where you're coming from but don't completely agree. Life is short, it's natural to want to spend more time doing the things we enjoy rather than doing a job 9-5 till you're close to dropping, so some will try to earn additional money.
Mug was the wrong word, and some are workaholics and enjoy working a routine which doesn't make them mugs, but not wanting to do that doesn't make one greedy or selfish. I know someone who has worked very hard as a freelancer, including sometimes taking no time off, so that they can "opt out" anytime around age 45 if they want to, rather than work to 65+ because they have to. They see it also as freeing up a job for someone else to do to make their own living, so definatley not selish.

I dabble with a bit of mining but more out of interest, the money is less important. And yep I've asked myself various questions about it, such as being environmentally unfriendly.

 

[bru]

In the volumes they sell at they are making a lot more money than using them to mine.

Bare in mind they mostly don't sell to us they sell to AIB'S, the roi on new card is maybe 3 months? So for them it will be much less than that, so in say 2 months they will have made more cash than they sell them for.

Say AMD/NVIDIA don't do it but Asus/Gigabyte/EVGA etc do, it would be the same thing, they make money and there are no cards for us.

The current people who mine/can afford to do so and those of us who cannot/don't want too are non too happy about the state of our hobby due to this. It would be no different is people further up the chain did it and suddenly the smaller miners couldn't get any cards.

It's a get rich quick scheme and who doesn't love one of those if it is in your favour.

 

[Frozennova]

Bare in mind they mostly don't sell to us they sell to AIB'S, the roi on new card is maybe 3 months? So for them it will be much less than that, so in say 2 months they will have made more cash than they sell them for.

Say AMD/NVIDIA don't do it but Asus/Gigabyte/EVGA etc do, it would be the same thing, they make money and there are no cards for us.

The current people who mine/can afford to do so and those of us who cannot/don't want too are non too happy about the state of our hobby due to this. It would be no different is people further up the chain did it and suddenly the smaller miners couldn't get any cards.

It's a get rich quick scheme and who doesn't love one of those if it is in your favour.

Not all of us are chucking a few grand a 10 cards off the bat.

I started mining with the hardware I had, then bought another once I had made enough profit

 

[Tiny Clanger]

So - to understand the reason for 2nd hand prices being so high - is this element more related to non-mining folk having to take what's available for upgrades? If not, I don't really understand the rationale (but that's maybe because I'm getting on in years!). So, take the example of my card - I sell it to someone for £150 who then uses it to mine. Now (and as you can see I have no idea, so this is just a guess) this is an older card and so won't be very efficient and at best it could make £1 net a day - and I assume for that you need to run it quite hot and for most of the 24 hours in a day. So, allowing for downtime etc, it takes someone 6 months to recover the initial outlay on a 5 year old card which may or may not survive the loading for that period of time - after which time, you're in profit as long as the card doesn't die. With a new card where there is a 3 year warrenty and you can earn more per hour I can (perhaps) understand it - but not with second hand kit out of warrenty with no history...