• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

Nvidia Ampere might launch as GeForce GTX 2070 and 2080 on April 12th

Caracus2k said:
If the gpu is faster I would assess the price performance proposition and decide if I wanted to buy. The size of the die, memory bus width and the amount of cores would not otherwise interest me.
Click to expand...
If the new 1280 (on Gy06 chip) was only a 10% improvement over the 1180 (Gx04), and the new Gy04 chip gave +60% improvement, you wouldn't be tempted to say, "Hold on, that +60% is what the new 1280 chip should have been!!" I know I would.

If they started releasing the xx06 chips as the 1280 for £500+, accompanied by record profit margins, I think many of us would start feeling short-changed. Or feel even more short-changed :p

I don't know about you, but it would leave my udders feeling sore and dry.
 
FoxEye said:
snip
Click to expand...

I would only be interested in the performance /value proposition for my use case. NVIDIA don't owe me or anyone else x% performance uplift per generation at a given price.

If the next two gens only offered circa 10% uplift per gen at the same price point or higher then my 1080ti I (and a lot of other people) just won't bother paying out...

The memory bus width, die size and core count would not otherwise factor into my decision making.
 
FoxEye said:
I don't know about you, but it would leave my udders feeling sore and dry.
Click to expand...

I wonder how people buying the 1070 now must feel - I paid 58% of the current price (of actual in stock) of them for mine! and I felt that was a stretch for what is basically a mid-range card.

(Not that the current prices are exactly nVidia's doing).
 
Rroff said:
I wonder how people buying the 1070 now must feel - I paid 58% of the current price (of actual in stock) of them for mine! and I felt that was a stretch for what is basically a mid-range card.

(Not that the current prices are exactly nVidia's doing).
Click to expand...
Or 580 buyers... £~220 to £450. More than doubling of the price!! When has that ever happened before?

Of course the only ones buying 580s now (at these prices) are miners, so sympathy goes out the window :p
 
Current prices are crazy especially so late into a processes life. Doesn't bode well for next gen....

Best case scenario (for customers) is nvidia launching next gen cards followed by a drastic crypto crash causing big price reductions due to a glut of last gen cards. One of the reasons i suspect nvidia hasn't rushed next gen out yet.
 
Caracus2k said:
Current prices are crazy especially so late into a processes life. Doesn't bode well for next gen....

Best case scenario (for customers) is nvidia launching next gen cards followed by a drastic crypto crash causing big price reductions due to a glut of last gen cards. One of the reasons is suspect nvidia hasn't rushed next gen out yet.
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't it be in their interests to release before the crash? I'm not sure I understand.

After the crash (if it happens), they will be competing with a potential flood of cheap (ish) mining cards, and will have to adjust their next-gen prices downwards, perhaps.

Why doesn't it make sense to release whilst the prices are high? Assuming they could, of course - that the next gen is basically ready (may not be the case).

e: I mean does it really matter if the "crash" happens before or after the next gen is released... surely if crypto crashes tomorrow they will have to wait a fairly long time for the supply of these ex-mining cards to dry up. Gamers are only going to buy ~1 each, for a start. Who else would want a load of old mining cards?

So whether they release and the crash happens a month later, or the crash happens now and they have to wait ~12 months for the market to absorb the mining cards, either scenario is bad for business.
 
I'm actually surprised in that respect nVidia haven't rushed out a new product launch (even just a Pascal refresh) with the current reasonably high Crypto value.
 
subbytna said:
Nvidia are selling beer - 20 bottles in the luxury 470 pack and 24 bottle crate 480 in the Deluxe pack.

You buy the luxury 20 pack with 470 stamp on it and are happy, you know there is a better pack with 24 bottles called the Deluxe 480 but you're happy with your 20 bottles

Next year they increase the alcohol content and call it the 570 twenty bottle luxury pack and the 580 twenty four bottle deluxe pack. Feeling good about the beer, you decide to go for the 24 bottle delux pack as it's the top pack you can get. You know they can't fit any more bottles into the crate so you go for it.

The following year Nvidia again increase the alcohol content and release the 20 bottle 670 pack and the 24 bottle deluxe 680 pack....with 22 bottles in it and call it the flagship 680 pack. You're like....hang on a minute, you can still fit another 2 bottles into the crate of 22, to make 24. 24 bottles is what the top pack always was from your experience, so this 22 bottle pack isn't the flagship, the 24 bottle pack is the flagship pack to buy.

This is what Nvidia have done. Re-named the beer pack with the high end branding as being the highest bottle count you can get in the crate....but it's not.

480 WAS the full chip
580 WAS the full chip
680 WAS NOT the full chip but the naming would lead you to believe it was.

My comments aren't about timescales they are about the core count, full usage chip. It's Nvidias sneaky use of the branding that bugs me. They put the 680 out knowing it wasn't ever going to be the top card of that chipset when in fact the 680 should really have been the 670 or possibly 670Ti. Slight of hand renaming...
Click to expand...

680 was really the 660 tbh... 780 was the 670 and 780ti/titan was the 680

:(
 
FoxEye said:
Why wouldn't it be in their interests to release before the crash? I'm not sure I understand.

After the crash (if it happens), they will be competing with a potential flood of cheap (ish) mining cards, and will have to adjust their next-gen prices downwards, perhaps.

Why doesn't it make sense to release whilst the prices are high? Assuming they could, of course - that the next gen is basically ready (may not be the case).

e: I mean does it really matter if the "crash" happens before or after the next gen is released... surely if crypto crashes tomorrow they will have to wait a fairly long time for the supply of these ex-mining cards to dry up. Gamers are only going to buy ~1 each, for a start. Who else would want a load of old mining cards?

So whether they release and the crash happens a month later, or the crash happens now and they have to wait ~12 months for the market to absorb the mining cards, either scenario is bad for business.
Click to expand...

Do nvidia want to ramp up production of a new range of cards only to have the market potentially implode somewhat before, at or shortly after launch...
 
Caracus2k said:
Do nvidia want to ramp up production of a new range of cards only to have the market potentially implode somewhat before, at or shortly after launch...
Click to expand...

Flawed logic... Nvidia will easily sell their new cards... reduced prices of a flood of last-gen cards won't have any effect on the new cards what-so-ever while mining is popular.

Heck... I'd have already bought another 12 if the prices hadn't gone insane... now it's better to just leave it in crypto and wait for the new cards...

Only idiots with no sense are buying cards at current prices with an ROI of over 1 year...
 
crinkleshoes said:
Flawed logic... Nvidia will easily sell their new cards... reduced prices of a flood of last-gen cards won't have any effect on the new cards what-so-ever while mining is popular.

Heck... I'd have already bought another 12 if the prices hadn't gone insane... now it's better to just leave it in crypto and wait for the new cards...

Only idiots with no sense are buying cards at current prices with an ROI of over 1 year...
Click to expand...

I was talking about a scenario where crypto mining potentially suffered a big down turn or collapsed? New cards are not likely to offer much over current 1080ti's performance wise... Good luck selling 'GTX2070 or GTX2080' s'. I'm volume if he market is flooded with cheap 1080ti's
 
Caracus2k said:
I was talking about a scenario where crypto mining potentially suffered a big down turn or collapsed? New cards are not likely to offer much over current 1080ti's performance wise... Good luck selling 'GTX2070 or GTX2080' s'. I'm volume if he market is flooded with cheap 1080ti's
Click to expand...

The 2070/2080 will easily be 20-30% faster than the 1080ti... quite possibly more.

Even if Nvidia overprice the 2080 at £600 a pop, they will easily sell every last one of them.
 
Caracus2k said:
These numbers are just marketing guff! Both nvidia and AMD have never remained consistent for long in their naming/numbering conventions....

Just buy GPU's based on price /performance!
Click to expand...
The situation today is more complicated than that tho.

In the past, an xx80 card would be released - let's say $500 - and then over the course of its lifetime the asking price would fall considerably below that as demand dwindled. So nV had to release a new xx80 card that moved the performance goalposts enough to reset the price back up to $500. Releasing a new card with the same perf but a higher price tag would be madness because it wouldn't sell.

Today we're living in different times. nV could theoretically release an 1180 which was a cut-down Gx104 and managed +10% over the 1080, and still sell it for $500+. Heck, a fair bit more than that, actually, whilst mining exists.

That doesn't mean it's not a crap move designed to cynically cash in, but neither company is above that. As Rroff said, whilst it's in their interests as a business to get maximum return possible, we as consumers should not be rushing to justify this on their behalf and and continuing to throw money at them.

Instead you are calling it "entitlement" from consumers. That we have "no right" to expect more than 10%... That's true of course, but it's self-defeating if you ever want to see good jumps in perf again. If you're happy with +10% then fine, but in the next breath you say you wouldn't buy such a card.

So you're advocating a strategy that from nV that would result in you not upgrading your own card, and would see the market adopt the same +10% we've had on the CPU side each gen, whilst delivering record profits for nV. Nothing we can say here can stop that if it happens, but it's weird to see people advocating such a reality, and justifying it should it happen. It just slows the pace of progress for everyone.
 
crinkleshoes said:
The 2070/2080 will easily be 20-30% faster than the 1080ti... quite possibly more.

Even if Nvidia overprice the 2080 at £600 a pop, they will easily sell every last one of them.
Click to expand...
I would bet money (not really) that the 1170/2070 will not be 20-30% faster than a 1080Ti, given the current climate. There's no way that would happen, unless they also put the 1170/2070 price up to £600 (and the 1180/2080 even higher than that, even).

It would be nice, but in a time when demand is infinite and they have no real competition, what they end up doing isn't likely to be what we want them to do. I'd love it if true. I'd absolutely love it. An 1170/2070 for £350-£400 (ish) that beats a 1080Ti by 20-30%. Oh boy, Christmas would come early.

Chances of it happening? I'd say <1%.

When the next gen cometh the prices will be so high water will turn to blood and everybody will start talking backwards. It's going to be the mother of all crazy bloodbaths. *This is assuming we are still in the grip of Manic Mining Madness.
 
FoxEye said:
I would bet money (not really) that the 1170/2070 will not be 20-30% faster than a 1080Ti, given the current climate. There's no way that would happen, unless they also put the 1170/2070 price up to £600 (and the 1180/2080 even higher than that, even).

It would be nice, but in a time when demand is infinite and they have no real competition, what they end up doing isn't likely to be what we want them to do. I'd love it if true. I'd absolutely love it. An 1170/2070 for £350-£400 (ish) that beats a 1080Ti by 20-30%. Oh boy, Christmas would come early.

Chances of it happening? I'd say <1%.

When the next gen cometh the prices will be so high water will turn to blood and everybody will start talking backwards. It's going to be the mother of all crazy bloodbaths. *This is assuming we are still in the grip of Manic Mining Madness.
Click to expand...

Make the bet 1180/2080 25% faster on average than 1080ti and I'll take those odds at 2:1
 
crinkleshoes said:
Make the bet 1180/2080 25% faster on average than 1080ti and I'll take those odds at 2:1
Click to expand...
An 1180/2080 for £600 and perf of 1080Ti+25% is a different bet ;) And for even that to happen mining will have to have crashed before the release.

'Coz otherwise I can see that perf costing £800 or more. Given that the 1080Ti is selling for £1000... and actually selling out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom