• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

[H]ardOCP: GeForce Partner Program Impacts Consumer Choice

Yet nothing actually came of PhysX, you don't even hear about it now because its fizzled out.

I'm not creating a strawman argument, I'm not convinced understand what that means. There isn't anything I'm misrepresenting, then arguing against that misrepresentation.

I'm highlighting that nVidia works on illiciting an emotional response, and trying to tie customers into a proprietary eco system whereby they need to keep buying nVidia to make full use of the software or hardware they have by making people feel as if they are missing out by not having nVidia.

The main thing they actually have over the competition was never good enough for them, even now, they have to keep doing the slimy things.

Which is why PhysX came up, because it never went anywhere outside of token gestures of:

"Here are normal physics effects"

Usually involving a scene with absolutely nothing going on, as if CPU based physics couldn't muster anything better.

As I said, only a handful of games actually even used GPU accelerated PhysX, and when they did it was over the top shoehorned nonsense. Speaking of Borderlands 2, the GPU PhysX in that were a mess and caused visual obstructions because of how over the top and gratuitous it was.

There's a reason it's not used or spoken about much now, because it was only ever a checkbox feature for marketing.

Tress FX didn't work for similar reasons. It was initially attempted as a proprietary format, then updated to work with nVidia, but ultimately an unnecessary attempt to tack on a checkbox feature.

Why are you also suggesting that this is a non story just because the source is AMD?

It appears that the story is actually true, regardless of whether it's from AMD or not, so that's completely and utterly irrelevant.
I agree with the first bit, but TressFX was never proprietary and always worked on everything and has been used more recently under the PureHair moniker in Rise of the Tomb Raider and Deus Ex Mankind Divided. Typical AMD: they did not require a developer who uses their TressFX code and modifies it to even acknowledge that it's AMD's code in the game settings menu, hence the confusion.

They've always been very bad at pushing their software even if it's superior as is the case with TressFX. Anyone remember the Bullet physics library? Well that was used in a grand total of 0 games.
 
I agree with the first bit, but TressFX was never proprietary and always worked on everything and has been used more recently under the PureHair moniker in Rise of the Tomb Raider and Deus Ex Mankind Divided. Typical AMD: they did not require a developer who uses their TressFX code and modifies it to even acknowledge that it's AMD's code in the game setting settings menu, hence the confusion.

They've always been very bad at pushing their software even if it's superior as is the case with TressFX. Anyone remember the Bullet physics library? Well that was used in a grand total of 0 games.
I know, but initially it didn't actually work with nVidia. NVidia support had to be patched in later on.

But it had the same result as proprietary software. The only good thing AMD managed with proprietary software was Mantle, which was handed off to Kronos and became Vulkan.
 
I can, and I am. The ever-increasing divide is exactly why they're able to do this.

"That's not fair". Lifes not fair, mate.
They've always done stuff like this, even when AMD or ATI graphics were actually competitive on price and performance. It's the way nVidia chooses to conduct business. It's literally got nothing to do with AMD how nVidia decides to behave.

AMD's lack of competitive graphics hardware only has an implication on value, and the time scale at which nVidia brings products to the market.
 
I know, but initially it didn't actually work with nVidia. NVidia support had to be patched in later on.

But it had the same result as proprietary software. The only good thing AMD managed with proprietary software was Mantle, which was handed off to Kronos and became Vulkan.
Are you referring to the Tomb Raider 2013 game? I thought there were crashing issues in that game on release because Nvidia didn't get access to the game well before release. I don't think the issues were due to TressFX and there has never been any technical limitation on TressFX to stop it working on anything unlike PhysX.

The only case I can remember is Lichdom Battlemage where the developer took the decision to remove TressFX from the game for Nvidia users as they were "tired of complaints from Nvidia users about performance". This never made sense as TressFX has never performed badly on Nvidia cards vs AMD in any other game that uses it.
 
How? You're focusing on the source of the leak while ignoring the content and the claim that it's been corroborated by other companies.

Yet you keep going on about how AMD leaked it. How exactly am I the fanboy in this situation? I'd love to know. Also, a fanboy of what or who exactly?

It doesn't change my purchasing decision because nVidia have already done enough prior to this news that I dislike giving them my custom.

I've touched on the context already as much as any one person here can without digesting information we currently don't have.

That's evident because you'd already gone off on a tangent about PhysX which you slowly dropped when I brought up TressFX.

"our market position allows us to break anti-competitive laws, blame you, and absolve ourselves of any resposnsibility."

Tell that to intel.

You don't instigate to the press if you know you've got a legal case against someone. Fact probably is, nobody is going to be found to be in breach of any laws.
 
Last edited:
I've touched on the context already as much as any one person here can without digesting information we currently don't have.

That's evident because you'd already gone off on a tangent about PhysX which you slowly dropped when I brought up TressFX.



You don't instigate to the press if you know you've got a legal case against someone. Fact probably is, nobody is going to be found to be in breach of any laws.
I didn't drop anything about PhysX. Tress FX didn't work either, but that isn't the point. "BUT TRESSFX" isn't really a proper response to my rant about PhysX.

You've still not told me what I'm a fanboy of.

The amount of emphasis you're placing on AMD here is unreal. If the information is true, the source literally doesn't matter or have an impact on its validity.

In such a situation, nVidia hasn't actually put these steps into place yet, what best way to actually do something about it than point it out? Sunlight is the best disinfectant, and if these claims are true, then it's likely put a stop to this going much further.

This quote is quite apt in fact.

"Publicity is justly commended as a remedy for social and industrial diseases. Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman."

This situation is covered pretty much by all parts of that quote.

Your fixation on AMD is just you trying to downplay the situation. I really hope you're being well compensated as a Focus Group member for your services. I almost believe you believe what you're typing.
 
I've touched on the context already as much as any one person here can without digesting information we currently don't have.

That's evident because you'd already gone off on a tangent about PhysX which you slowly dropped when I brought up TressFX.



You don't instigate to the press if you know you've got a legal case against someone. Fact probably is, nobody is going to be found to be in breach of any laws.

Actually its quite clever from AMD, getting others to do their dirty work for them, also its a good way of gauging how deep the *corruption* goes, if they have contacted various sites and only HardOCP has bothered to write up about it, are the other sites being paid off? probably not, they probably worry though that their Nvidia freebie gravy train will come to an end though if they jump on this train.

Im fairly certain AMD is probably already working legally to look into this, no harm in getting others to gather similar info on your behalf either...

I hope its true, and i hope Nvidia get fined heftily for it, its not like they cant afford it, but a slap on the wrist for them, will help the industry and help keep Intel in check as well, hopefully it makes people like DELL also sit up and take notice.

Anyone that doesnt think this happens in the industry is fooling themselves, and i dont think for one minute AMD has never been fully clean either, unfortunately for them and probably fortunately for us, AMD has never had enough market share of GPU or CPU markets to actually pull this kind of rubbish.
 
I didn't drop anything about PhysX.


NVidia's been up to this sort of thing for years. People just ignore it because they like the graphics cards and fall for the marketing push of "you're missing out."


The feeling of missing out is what got sales for PhysX, for example, not actual examples of unprecedented levels of physics effects in games.


Yet you keep going on about how AMD leaked it. How exactly am I the fanboy in this situation? I'd love to know. Also, a fanboy of what or who exactly?

.


Of backtracking apparently. Round and round he goes, where he'll stop - nobody knows.
 
If you're not in breach of the law, then yes?

You've read the article right? It wouldn't exist unless there was belief that nVidia's practices are anti-competitive, and from what's described from the documents Kyle had read, it sure sounds like it. MDF certainly sounds a lot like the loyalty rebates Intel were handing out to OEMs.

Stop posturing, it won't make products any cheaper for you

I'm not sure why you are saying this. Firstly i'm not posturizing and secondly, no outcome from this will make products cheaper for the end user.
 
Last edited:
You've read the article right? It wouldn't exist unless there was belief that nVidia's practices are anti-competitive, and from what's described from the documents Kyle had read, it sure sounds like it. MDF certainly sounds a lot like the loyalty rebates Intel were handing out to OEMs.

Right now it's all a lot of conjecture and not a lot else. If what you're saying were true then it will all come out in the wash, and there's no need for all the knicker twisting, is there?


Posturing is exactly what you're doing. You're making a fuss in order to better get what you want. That's pretty much what posturing is. I mean, if you're not going to gain anything from being so anti-something, why bother at all?
 
silent_scone said:
If what you're saying were true then it will all come out in the wash, and there's no need for all the knicker twisting, is there?
No, not quite. I said no outcome from this mess will make products cheaper and it wont. That again does not absolve them of any responsibilities and it absolutely is not AMDs fault if they are found to be abusing their market position. People are right to be concerned and even angry if nVidia are doing that. I cannot understand why you would think otherwise.
 
Last edited:
No, not quite. I said no outcome from this mess will make products cheaper and it wont. That again does not absolve them of any responsibilities and it absolutely is not AMDs fault if they are found to be abusing their market position. I cannot understand why you would think otherwise.

This is where you're confused. I'm not blaming AMD. That's a word that you're throwing around. All I said is; If they weren't so caught up in what their competitors were doing, maybe we wouldn't be stuck with subpar GPUs.

That's not blaming anyone, that's pointing out their track record of belligerent finger-pointing over the last decade. To put a finer point on it, apportioning blame solves nothing if your products are weak anyway, or if nobody can find them in stock anywhere.
 
Silent_Scone said:
This is where you're confused. I'm not blaming AMD. That's a word that you're throwing around.

Silent_Scone said:
JAMES.MILLER said:
You can blame AMD for lacking competitive products and leading customers to buy Nvidia cards. That's fine, but you cannot blame AMD for Nvidia's business practices. It's nVidia's decision and theirs alone.
I can, and I am. The ever-increasing divide is exactly why they're able to do this.

I'm not the one who's confused. I'm bowing out of this particular branch of the discussion. We'll see what unfolds next.
 
Last edited:
That's your post that uses the word blame, mate.

You're using the prefix for it being AMD's fault that this is happened. No, but it's large and part the reason it's been allowed to.

Hope that helps...


Honestly, I'd just bow out until there's some competition. At least that way it'll be easier to construct an argument.
 
No doubt adoredtv will be all over this like a rash in the next couple of days but lets face facts, this will not impact Nvidia sales at worse they may see a minor blip in sales over the next couple of months but pretty soon they will launch brand new mid range GPU's for £500/£600 a pop and half the people reading this thread will end up throwing their money at Nvidia to get the latest toy and very quickly all this will be forgotten.

The only way this will change is if AMD can somehow get a competitive product into the market again, that seems a long way off looking at the performance of Vega and AMD will be quite content on flogging all their cards to miners for the foreseeable future and leaving Nvidia alone to rule the roost in the PC gaming market.
 
Adored mentioned he was working on another article when he released his last video on the Ryzen refresh, this might be it. I'd be surprised if he wasn't at least aware given that Kyle's been sitting on the information for a few weeks now.
 
Back
Top Bottom