[H]ardOCP: GeForce Partner Program Impacts Consumer Choice

[D.P.]

If the AIBs weren't allowed to sell AMD GPUS under a different gaming brand then there would be a massive lawsuit, Nvidia would loose and they know they would.And the large AIBs that also sell volumes of AMD cards would put their middle finger up at nvidia and not be part of the program.

There is really little need to believe in wild conspiracy theories stoked by AMD and their fanbase.

Given the publicly states goals and requirements of the program, AIBs still wont be super happy because, e.g. ASUS coudln't use ROG for both AMD and nvidia GPUS, and ROG monitors gets even more complex. So this sn't great for them, they don;t stand to gain much so it is not unexpected they have concerns. but it is hardly some massive anti-competition scheme.

I don;t think it makes any difference to consumers, AIBs have some small added work and decisions about how to split brands, and nvidia can feel more comfortable supporting AIB brands that doesn;t indirectly provide support to AMD.

What Nvidia seemingly dislike is they give a lot of support to AIBs, they are currently making the best GPUS without competition at the top, and that is driving veyr strong the brands such as ROG. When Asus sells an AMD card as ROG then they get a boost form the 1080ti performance leading to the ORG brand having better recognition and performance attributes.



To be clear, assumign the GPP is what Nvidia states it is, I am not a big fan of it. IMO, he AIBs should be left a long to market as they wish.

 

[WantoN]

I'm as guilty as anyone of getting into a back and forth, but these forums do give me a giggle sometimes. This is a discussion, not something to win.

How anyone can't see this as a power play does surprise me though, especially given the aggressive way NV approaches the market.

Do people believe that this isn't the thin end of the wedge for NV? Paving the way for more restrictive clauses and disincentives for AIBs to support AMD?

Do people think this doesn't have potential to further damage AMD?

 

[David Bisset]

No they don't

Yeah they really do. http://www.oecd.org/competition/abuse/ Bundling is totally legit... in a position of non-dominance. In a dominant position it's not - sometimes. Likewise loyalty rebates are fine for non-dominant players, for dominant players they're not - sometimes.

The marketing branding stuff may or may not fall foul of the kinds of rules, that's one for lawyers to argue - but there are definitely different rules to be found for dominant market players in any major market. The rules vary by market, so the EU rules are different to others etc, so where the line is crossed is always tough to identify and is generally a very grey line in the first place, it's a messy area.

 

[james.miller]

If the AIBs weren't allowed to sell AMD GPUS under a different gaming brand then there would be a massive lawsuit, Nvidia would loose and they know they would.And the large AIBs that also sell volumes of AMD cards would put their middle finger up at nvidia and not be part of the program.

The article references the Intel case for good reason, it's almost the same situation. Intel bunged it's customer billions of dollars to promote intel at the expense of AMD whilst it held a dominate position before the lawsuits finally caught up with them, and that was because nobody wanted to speak about it. Sounds familiar, right?

 

[humbug]

If the AIBs weren't allowed to sell AMD GPUS under a different gaming brand then there would be a massive lawsuit, Nvidia would loose and they know they would.And the large AIBs that also sell volumes of AMD cards would put their middle finger up at nvidia and not be part of the program.

There is really little need to believe in wild conspiracy theories stoked by AMD and their fanbase.

Given the publicly states goals and requirements of the program, AIBs still wont be super happy because, e.g. ASUS coudln't use ROG for both AMD and nvidia GPUS, and ROG monitors gets even more complex. So this sn't great for them, they don;t stand to gain much so it is not unexpected they have concerns. but it is hardly some massive anti-competition scheme.

I don;t think it makes any difference to consumers, AIBs have some small added work and decisions about how to split brands, and nvidia can feel more comfortable supporting AIB brands that doesn;t indirectly provide support to AMD.

What Nvidia seemingly dislike is they give a lot of support to AIBs, they are currently making the best GPUS without competition at the top, and that is driving veyr strong the brands such as ROG. When Asus sells an AMD card as ROG then they get a boost form the 1080ti performance leading to the ORG brand having better recognition and performance attributes.



To be clear, assumign the GPP is what Nvidia states it is, I am not a big fan of it. IMO, he AIBs should be left a long to market as they wish.

AIB's are not allowed to sell AMD cards under THE Gaming brand, it says exactly that in the agreement "Gaming brands must be exclusively aligned with GeForece" MSI Gaming / X, Asus Republic of Gamers...

 

[D.P.]

AIB's are not allowed to sell AMD cards under THE Gaming brand, it says exactly that in the agreement "gaming brands must be exclusively aligned with GeForece" Gaming X, Republic of Gamers...

Nope, it doens't state that at all. It states that the AIB must have a gaming brand that is exclusive to Nvidia. It doesn't state that the AIB can only have one gaming brand. Any other interpretation involves information outside of Kyle's quote.

No AIB would sign up to something which prevented them selling AMD GPUs as gaming products.

 

[humbug]

Nope, it doens't state that at all. It states that the AIB must have a gaming brand that is exclusive to Nvidia. It doesn't state that the AIB can only have one gaming brand. Any other interpretation involves information outside of Kyle's quote.

No AIB would sign up to something which prevented them selling AMD GPUs as gaming products.

No it doesn't, again it says exactly this

Gaming Brand Aligned Exclusively With GeForce

Read it for your self its right here https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/03/07/geforce_partner_program_impacts_consumer_choice

 

[lordfletch]

ASUS could leave ROG for monitor, peripherals etc. and even AMD GPUS, and create a new brand for Nvidia geforce. nvidia is not forcing AIBs to give their brand names to nvidia,. Nvidia only seems to want a clear differentiation between a Nvidia and AMD GPU.

The article references the Intel case for good reason, it's almost the same situation. Intel bunged it's customer billions of dollars to promote intel at the expense of AMD whilst it held a dominate position before the lawsuits finally caught up with them, and that was because nobody wanted to speak about it. Sounds familiar, right?

nail on head here, how or why anyone on here(apart for nvidias lawyers) would argue any differently i find baffling. at the end of the day its going to be us the consumer who pays for this,one way or another.

 

[BubbySoup]

No it doesn't, again it says exactly this

Read it for your self its right here https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/03/07/geforce_partner_program_impacts_consumer_choice

D.P. is right;

What would it mean to have your "Gaming Brand Aligned Exclusively With GeForce?" The example that will likely resonate best with HardOCP readers is the ASUS Republic of Gamers brand. I have no knowledge if ASUS is a GPP partner, I am simply using the ROG brand hypothetically. If ASUS is an NVIDIA GPP partner, and it wants to continue to use NVIDIA GPUs in its ROG branded video cards, computers, and laptops, it can no longer sell any other company's GPUs in ROG products. So if ASUS want to keep building NVIDIA-based ROG video cards, it can no longer sell AMD-based ROG video cards, and be a GPP partner.

They are saying you can't use ROG for anything else. Nowhere does it say you can't set up something new.

 

[Gerard]

D.P. is right;

Miracles never cease

 

[D.P.]

No it doesn't, again it says exactly this

Read it for your self its right here https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/03/07/geforce_partner_program_impacts_consumer_choice

Exactly, they need a gaming brand alligned with Nvidia. Doesn't say anything about other gaming brands.

Nvidia's public statement on their blog clearly states that the AIB can keep selling other gaming products.

https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2018/03/01/geforce-partner-program/

The program isn’t exclusive. Partners continue to have the ability to sell and promote products from anyone.

 

[Gregster]

I rarely agree with DP but certainly do on this occasion. He is quite correct with the gaming branding.

 

[sideways14a]

Ok lets assume that AIBs are indeed allowed other gaming brands, even though i suspect thats not true.
If an AIB has to create a whole new brand for AMD cards then that is at a significant disadvantage right away, these brands take years to build - nvidia is basically taking that hard earned work that AMD had a hand in and saying start again with your own one.
Bullying and manipulating... what a surprise.

 

[james.miller]

nvidia's public statement is worthless because a) it's not a response to the article at all and b) it's lip service, it only exists to tell the general public the benefits of the program, not the negatives.

DP, you'll note the article doesnt argue against that point that you quoted. What it actually says is

NVIDIA will tell you that it is 100% up to its partner company to be part of GPP, and from the documents I have read, if it chooses not to be part of GPP, it will lose the benefits of GPP which include: high-effort engineering engagements -- early tech engagement -- launch partner status -- game bundling -- sales rebate programs -- social media and PR support -- marketing reports -- Marketing Development Funds (MDF). MDF is likely the standout in that list of lost benefits if the company is not a GPP partner.

There's no need to bring that blog post up when the article already talks about it, you're just leading the discussion round in circles. Also, Arguing about whether GPP partners can have other gaming brands or not (at their additional expense of course) is a waste of time until it's confirmed one way or the other.

My opinion is this: if a GPP partner has more than one gaming brand, it's unlikely that nVidia are only interested in one of them but if that is the case, it's still the partner who foots the bill when they have to create new gaming brands for AMD and ultimately we all pay as consumers. It's bad the partners, bad for AMD and bad for us. There is no positive outcome for anybody other than nvidia, here, and it shouldn't be encouraged. It shouldn't be allowed period.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Exactly, they need a gaming brand alligned with Nvidia. Doesn't say anything about other gaming brands.

Nvidia's public statement on their blog clearly states that the AIB can keep selling other gaming products.

https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2018/03/01/geforce-partner-program/

The quote from HardOCP doesn't say "a gaming brand". (Implying singular)

The crux of the issue with NVIDIA GPP comes down to a single requirement in order to be part of GPP. In order to have access to the GPP program, its partners must have its "Gaming Brand Aligned Exclusively With GeForce." I have read documents with this requirement spelled out on it.

Any gaming brand that the partner owns must be aligned exclusively with Geforce.

 

[humbug]

D.P. is right;


They are saying you can't use ROG for anything else. Nowhere does it say you can't set up something new.

What you just quoted agrees with me:


What would it mean to have your "Gaming Brand Aligned Exclusively With GeForce?" The example that will likely resonate best with HardOCP readers is the ASUS Republic of Gamers brand. I have no knowledge if ASUS is a GPP partner, I am simply using the ROG brand hypothetically. If ASUS is an NVIDIA GPP partner, and it wants to continue to use NVIDIA GPUs in its ROG branded video cards, computers, and laptops, it can no longer sell any other company's GPUs in ROG products. So if ASUS want to keep building NVIDIA-based ROG video cards, it can no longer sell AMD-based ROG video cards, and be a GPP partner.

 

[Gregster]

Asus PRO series (Performance Radeon Otherworldly)
MSI Red series
Gigabyte Hunter series

I did that for free in a couple of seconds

 

[humbug]

There is a reason why everything is called "Gaming" these days, marketing, a lot of people only buy gaming branded components, to such an extent some vendors sell nothing but, all MSI gards are now gaming branded, the Quick Silver that i own didn't sell despite it having more RGB on it, a much higher quality Back Plate and a couple of other differences to its Gaming-X line, like better VRM cooling... its a stunning card but it doesn't have "Gaming" on it, this is why nVidia want control of this branding.

These vendors have spent a lot of money building up this branding and now nVidia are forcing their ownership of it, those vendors are very #### about that and rightfully so, but they in effect don't have a choice.

 

[BubbySoup]

So if ASUS want to keep building NVIDIA-based ROG video cards, it can no longer sell AMD-based ROG video cards, and be a GPP partner.

I completely agree with you. It doesn't mean ASUS cannot create a new brand after they have joined though.

 

[humbug]

Read above you.