I'm not branding him a sociopath per say just pointing out that there is a trend for sociopaths to do well in business... it isn't like there is a binary division here whereby everyone who isn't a sociopath has loads of empathy... perhaps he's just quite disagreeable etc..
Thai cave rescue - One of the divers has died
- Thread starter Hades
- Start date
I'm not branding him a sociopath per say just pointing out that there is a trend for sociopaths to do well in business... it isn't like there is a binary division here whereby everyone who isn't a sociopath has loads of empathy... perhaps he's just quite disagreeable etc..
The Thai rescue chief was probably correct in his assessment it wasn't practical - though Musk is technically correct in that the guy wasn't the subject matter expert - other people involved were - but he certainly would have had detailed knowledge of the terrain they were dealing with but he still kept Musk in the loop.
Yeah people tend to have quotients of business sense and ability with people both of which can be conducive to results in business in differing amounts without a direct relationship between the two characteristics.
Musk seems very very Marmite with people - some who have worked closely with him hate him others enjoy working around him.
Yeah people tend to have quotients of business sense and ability with people both of which can be conducive to results in business in differing amounts without a direct relationship between the two characteristics.
Musk seems very very Marmite with people - some who have worked closely with him hate him others enjoy working around him.
The sub idea seems like a bad idea and an experienced cave diver (the expert in this case, not Musk and his band of engineers) called him out on it after being asked about it by a reporter.
Musk and his band of followers can't take criticism and didn't like being called out on using a tragic event for a PR stunt. (Note I quite like Musk and was happy about him offering to help)
If he just wanted to help fine, but that didn't require him to go there personally, that was for PR.
The fact that the water levels were low would make a sub even harder to use and would require divers to push/lift it though the cave.
Given that at some points the cave is less than 50 cm in diameter the chances of a sub like that getting stuck and completely blocking the escape would have been high.
If an any point the sub needs carrying that would be a big problem for 2 divers in a confined space, suspect just picking up the sub outside would be hard due to the weight.
It seem some people don't realise how much effort it takes to get equipment into long caves, they gave up on the telephone line which would be relatively simple compared to the sub.
Musk and his band of followers can't take criticism and didn't like being called out on using a tragic event for a PR stunt. (Note I quite like Musk and was happy about him offering to help)
If he just wanted to help fine, but that didn't require him to go there personally, that was for PR.
The fact that the water levels were low would make a sub even harder to use and would require divers to push/lift it though the cave.
Given that at some points the cave is less than 50 cm in diameter the chances of a sub like that getting stuck and completely blocking the escape would have been high.
If an any point the sub needs carrying that would be a big problem for 2 divers in a confined space, suspect just picking up the sub outside would be hard due to the weight.
It seem some people don't realise how much effort it takes to get equipment into long caves, they gave up on the telephone line which would be relatively simple compared to the sub.
38cm - they tested for that - what they didn't test was articulation when trying to negotiate those confined spaces that aren't straight forward straight sections - a challenge well known to anyone with even the smallest amount of caving experience.
Agreed they also mostly tested for submerged but under ideal conditions rather than the potential for having to do significant sections that were either dry or not deep enough to float the device.
The mini sub actually uses advanced materials that make it very light - until you stick a 40kg kid in there.
It was a bit more than just criticism and frankly it was a bit unnecessary to criticise like that given what we've seen from the e-mails where Musk specifically asks the diver he's communicating for whether the device is needed or not. They could have told Elon no then and he could have dropped the whole thing and saved a trip.
Fact is he didn't just criticise him and make it seem like he was unwanted (when we now know that he was communicating with a team member behind the scenes and was told to please keep working on the capsule because they're worried about the smallest lad), but he was also quite blatantly rude to him - telling him to stick it where it hurts. All the diver needed to say was that he didn't think the device was feasible, he didn't need to then attack Elon personally or essentially tell him to shove the thing up his arse.
It was totally unnecessary of the diver and he came across as a bit of a ****, I'm not surprised that Elon was a bit angry/wound up... but then agin he lost any moral high ground by calling him a pedo guy and frankly has opened himself up for being sued now.
They really should just apologise to each other and move on but now the media has its teeth into it it is going to be beaten for all it is worth :s
Your point here, since it's obvious the cave isn't straight, so could get stuck? You agreeing with me but making out like your not? o_O
How much caving experience has Musk had BTW?
Whatever material used it going to weigh a significant amount, it may be light to carry upright when you have 4 guys on it, but in the confines of a tight cave even a few kilos is a lot. And something that is a solid fixed shape just adds to the problems. The power source I assume would be a battery, that certainly isn't light. (I doubt a power cable would work if they couldn't even get a telephone line in)
Soldato
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Was it actually powered? I thought it was just a capsule? Either way he's a bit of a ****, just uses any chance he can get to promote his brand. Just imagine the endless back-patting if they'd used his gadget and got them out, he'd be chasing some sort of medal no doubt.
I'm not so much agreeing or disagreeing just inferring that there are many more facets to it - the media seem to be having a field day making out a lot of details in a way that isn't representatives of the reality giving people completely the wrong idea in some cases.
The challenge with caves like that isn't just smallness of the space but also that often an object longer than a small length will need to actively negotiate the terrain twisting, turning, etc. which is hard enough when not submerged never mind underwater - it seems they were fortunate in that regard that between diverting streams and pumping they managed to get the water levels down to where that was less of an issue than originally feared and hence why, with the forecast incoming weather, they went for it as conditions weren't going to get any better any time soon.
I've no idea how much caving experience Musk has but his comments suggest limited - hence he was bouncing ideas of the divers involved - he mentions team feedback but then says primarily Stanton.
It was designed - I'm assuming unladen - to be manoeuvrable by two people even in confined spaces though I suspect that isn't so easily done when you have a 40+Kg person inside - though they spent a good bit of time hauling the kids through on stretchers so it isn't a million miles away given the use of advanced materials to keep the weight down, etc.
I'd assuming the power source would be li-ion based or some other high energy density cell for that kind of application, the device itself wasn't propelled, and a few hours worth you are probably talking 45-100grams.
A lot of people pestered him on twitter to get involved and he was running a few different approaches working with 3 different engineering teams including one who specialises in developing products for this kind of use (though he seems to have mugged them off a bit) - writing it off as purely a PR exercise is a bit of an injustice I think. (Though I'm not quite sure what the point of dumping the mini-sub in the cave at the end is though he made some mutterings, that I suspect will be the last we hear of it, about proving it works there or something).
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The guy gave a tongue in cheek stick up where the sun don't shine response to a reporter, because the idea was so silly. That's an attack on his idea. If you think that make him look a bit of a dick fair enough, but then how can you defend Musk given his track record of being even more of a dick to loads of people?
And calling some one a pedo (when you have just made it up, as a direct insult) to 22 million people (before it hits the news) is significantly worse IMO.
Anyone that resorts to calling people pedos just because they have insulted you or your ideas has personality issues.
The diver wasn't the one communicating with Musk so wasn't in the position to tell him he's sub wasn't needed.
I'm not sure it was tongue in cheek...
The guy gave a tongue in cheek stick up where the sun don't shine response to a reporter, because the idea was so silly. That's an attack on his idea. If you think that make him look a bit of a dick fair enough, but then how can you defend Musk given his track record of being even more of a dick to loads of people?
I'm not defending musk, I'm criticising the diver's initial comments, there was no need for his attack on Musk in the first place and it was a bit of a dick move, especially the comment he threw in at the end not exactly just tongue in cheek given he wasn't exactly being friendly to Musk in the first place.
that doesn't make any difference, the point is that Musk himself asked the team member he was communicating with whether it was useful to them and was told to carry on, whereas the interview with this other guy just painted Musk as someone being unhelpful who just turned up unwanted and was quickly told to go away, so it isn't surprising that Musk was annoyed.
Here's more of the video in question.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/video/news...-musk-can-stick-his-submarine-where-it-hurts/
That looks to me as a joke response given that he's smiling and almost laughing at the question because in his opinion the idea was silly. People don't tend to smile if they intend to attack someone in a vindictive way.
And he goes on to explain some of the reasons why it wouldn't work.
Soldato
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if you think she's a bit mad check out his current partner:
(she does make good music though)
"So Mr Musk, what are you going to wear this party?"
"I dunno, I'll probably just go as a negative priest."
Imagine what the "Punitive Damages" are likely to be on that one??
Only in america...
Musk has no obvious leg to stand on with his accusation so good luck with the defence if sued but in the UK you will not get awarded comedy sums.
Investors should be more worried that the CEO is stupid enough to set himself up to be sued for libel and will likely bring up such concerns.
Unless he sues him in the US. But they might take the number of people it was broadcast to in to account as to how much damage was done, which is a lot.
But negative priest confirmed
Someone needs to photoshop the suit on to the original image
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