Boris and the burka

StriderX said:
6 White British men and three folks with English names, damn what compelling evidence that someone from the middle-east who regards the said dress-ware as distinctly feminine and distinctly off limits as potential for criminal usage.

As said i don't like the clothing, but that's a poor attempt at saying they use them for crime... by using our own people. And yet... low and behold they were STILL arrested, i dont even.
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What do you mean by "our own people"?

Seems to highlight the use of them in crime at least, not sure why you feel race is relevant there or that rather dodgy use of language.

You can find other examples too - I posted a couple earlier in the thread of people using their sister's passport and donning a veil in order to flee the country.
 
dowie said:
What do you mean by "our own people"?

Seems to highlight the use of them in crime at least, not sure why you feel race is relevant there or that rather dodgy use of language.

You can find other examples too - I posted a couple earlier in the thread of people using their sister's passport and donning a veil in order to flee the country.
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All 9 men were what i would call native (yes even he three not so native folks), in a discussion about what many perceive as a Muslim artefact, the fact is it's terrible evidence, especially since they were caught.
 
StriderX said:
All 9 men were what i would call native (yes even he three not so native folks), in a discussion about what many perceive as a Muslim artefact, the fact is it's terrible evidence, especially since they were caught.
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It's fairly good evidence of it being used in a crime, which is all he was highlighting.
 
dowie said:
It's fairly good evidence of it being used in a crime, which is all he was highlighting.
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Perhaps, but it's irrelevant to the actual issue, so what if a bunch of English people used it to commit crime, they'd use something else if they could (not exactly difficult...) and the fact is a group of burkas all rushing into a store/bank is always going to look weird, weird enough that they've all been caught.
 
StriderX said:
Perhaps, but it's irrelevant to the actual issue, so what if a bunch of English people used it to commit crime, they'd use something else if they could (not exactly difficult...) and the fact is a group of burkas all rushing into a store/bank is always going to look weird, weird enough that they've all been caught.
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It isn't irrelevant at all, there are valid security issues relating to people covering their heads thus why you shouldn't walk into a bank or jewellery store with a balaclava or motorcycle helmet on.
 
Yas786 said:
Wrong, it’s nothing to do with Islam other than idiots taking certain quotes or sayings from the Quran and using it for their own purposes. Or women themselves thinking that the burka must be worn no questions asked.
I’ve asked this before to some other poster but he ran off, show me where in the Quran it says a woman must wear a burka?? [..]
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Every religion is defined by whoever has enough power to do so. If enough Muslims with enough power within the religion decided that walking backwards for 6 minutes at 1700 every Thursday was part of Islam, then walking backwards for 6 minutes at 1700 every Thursday would be part of Islam. Or whatever.

Interpretation of selected parts of a large body of text can result in pretty much anything the interpreter wants, so it is almost entirely solely about power. There are some limits (e.g. I doubt if it would be possible to interpret any part of the Quran to make Islam polytheistic), but clothing isn't one of them. As far as I can tell without being able to read Arabic, there isn't a clear and explicit definition of mandatory, encouraged, discouraged or forbidden clothing in the Quran. Only general statements about modesty and women covering something not clearly stated. So it's a matter of interpretation. Some Muslims interpret it as being best to conceal everything. You think their interpretation is wrong. They think your interpretation is wrong.
 
Yadda said:
From my experience most Islamophobes I meet generally dislike foreigners, especially if they're brown. If only they were more honest about it.
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It must be disturbing to be constantly reading everyone's mind and knowing what they're truly thinking even when what they say and do indicates the opposite. How do you manage?
 
Angilion said:
It must be disturbing to be constantly reading everyone's mind and knowing what they're truly thinking even when what they say and do indicates the opposite. How do you manage?
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I don't have to read their minds, I just listen to what comes out of their pie holes.
 
Yadda said:
I don't have to read their minds, I just listen to what comes out of their pie holes.
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No, you don't. You made that clear by saying that you knew what they were thinking despite them not being honest about it. If you were just listening to what they said and they were saying what you decided they were thinking, you wouldn't describe them as not being honest.
 
Angilion said:
No, you don't. You made that clear by saying that you knew what they were thinking despite them not being honest about it. If you were just listening to what they said and they were saying what you decided they were thinking, you wouldn't describe them as not being honest.
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Where did I claim to know what they're thinking? Can you show me?
 
Angilion said:
Every religion is defined by whoever has enough power to do so. If enough Muslims with enough power within the religion decided that walking backwards for 6 minutes at 1700 every Thursday was part of Islam, then walking backwards for 6 minutes at 1700 every Thursday would be part of Islam. Or whatever.

Interpretation of selected parts of a large body of text can result in pretty much anything the interpreter wants, so it is almost entirely solely about power. There are some limits (e.g. I doubt if it would be possible to interpret any part of the Quran to make Islam polytheistic), but clothing isn't one of them. As far as I can tell without being able to read Arabic, there isn't a clear and explicit definition of mandatory, encouraged, discouraged or forbidden clothing in the Quran. Only general statements about modesty and women covering something not clearly stated. So it's a matter of interpretation. Some Muslims interpret it as being best to conceal everything. You think their interpretation is wrong. They think your interpretation is wrong.
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yep, just like the difference between Catholics and Protestants in regards to communion and a hundred other things despite both being regarded as Christian denominations.
 
Yadda said:
Where did I claim to know what they're thinking? Can you show me?
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Sure I can:

Yadda said:
From my experience most Islamophobes I meet generally dislike foreigners, especially if they're brown. If only they were more honest about it.
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You're saying that they generally dislike foreigners, especially if they're brown (a description of what they're thinking) and that they're not being honest about it (a description of what they're saying). So they're not saying that they generally dislike foreigners, especially if they're brown, but you claim to know that's what they're thinking.
 
Angilion said:
Sure I can:



You're saying that they generally dislike foreigners, especially if they're brown (a description of what they're thinking) and that they're not being honest about it (a description of what they're saying). So they're not saying that they generally dislike foreigners, especially if they're brown, but you claim to know that's what they're thinking.
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I'm afraid your assumption that I know what they're thinking is flawed. My assessment is based on what they say not what they think, as I have already explained to you.

Now, are you going to stop being daft?
 
Orionaut said:
Of course the question is, if it is not Islamic as such. When and why was the Burka introduced?

Well, here's a thought I had yesterday while looking through some old Persian artworks.

The Women were all depicted as very pale skinned.

Now many people make the error of assuming that people like the Persians and Afghans are Arabs.

They are not, they are Aryan (The name Iran is derived from this). Persians/Iranians will actually take offense if they are referred to as Arabs

They can be quite pale skinned and frequently have blue eyes too (Even red hair sometimes). As commented in the thread elsewhere on Skin whitening. Many cultures value pale skins on Women. Perhaps the origin of the Burka was simply as a sunscreen and its more widespread use developed later:/
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Iran was very western culturally until the current hardline Islam/anti-Israel nutjobs took control. The people didn't suddenly just decide that sun tans are bad.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/t...nning-photos-reveal-life-Iran-revolution.html

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...and is it not racist to think that white skin is better? So Burqa supporters are white supremacists. :p

Again I am not saying Burqa is tied to Islam the religion but is more of a cultural adoption among the hardliners.

Look no further than this video to see the sort of mentality behind the Burqa:

"I think you look naked on the street"

"Who are you trying to seduce?"

"I am judging you"

"Go and put on some clothes"

That's a pretty extremist/scary mindset if you ask me and it's the reason why grooming gangs up and down the country saw young white girls as fair game (in their own twisted minds).
 
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Yadda said:
I'm afraid your assumption that I know what they're thinking is flawed. My assessment is based on what they say not what they think, as I have already explained to you.

Now, are you going to stop being daft?
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Your assessment is not based on what they say because you think they're not being honest, i.e. you think that what they say is not what they think.
 
Yadda said:
I'm afraid your assumption that I know what they're thinking is flawed. My assessment is based on what they say not what they think, as I have already explained to you.

Now, are you going to stop being daft?
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I would suggest that in order to disbelieve what they are saying you have had to make an assumption about what they are thinking?
 
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