Is anti-Veganism discriminatory . . .

[Hades]

How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?

What have we here, laddie? Mysterious scribblings? A secret code? No! Poems, no less! Poems, everybody!

 

[MadMossy]

Just visit your local pet shop and look at all the dry cat food.

Unless you are locking that cat up every day and not letting them outside at all (which is cruel). I can say with an absolute certainly that cat is out murdering wildlife on a daily basis.

Why is that? Cats are an apex predator. They also kill for fun.

 

[moon man]

weird to me how some of you most likley have pets in your unfulfilled urban lives ,but will happily eat cows sheep ect ,surrounded by them and although they scare the hell out of me they have amazing intelligence and individual traits similar to or above our furry freinds indoors

 

[Sankari]

You would benefit from eating a dog too, from the protein. Why don't you eat dogs?

* doesn't taste as good as the usual meats we eat
* not as nutritional as the usual meats we eat
* higher risk of disease
* not cost effective
* inefficient
* tough

 

[Sankari]

weird to me how some of you most likley have pets in your unfulfilled urban lives ,but will happily eat cows sheep ect ,surrounded by them and although they scare the hell out of me they have amazing intelligence and individual traits similar to or above our furry freinds indoors

Cows, sheep, etc. are domesticated animals. They cannot survive in the wild, and they're nowhere near as intelligent as dogs. They also taste delicious, and their meat is very good for us.

 

[Sankari]

A badly cooked piece of meat can cause food poisoning because we don't have the acids strong enough to break it down (unlike a Lion for example).

That's why we take care to cook it properly.

Humans have a long intestinal tract too, like that of a plant eater. We can (eventually) digest meat but it's certainly not 'what we were made to do'.

We're omnivores. Our species has been happily eating meat for tens of thousands of years.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

As an animal lover and lover of tasty meats I'm often in conflict with morals of eating things I'm supposed to have love for

I keep pondering whether it's possible to be an ethical carnivore and I think I've found a solution of eating only animals who would be more than happy to eat me too

Crocodile happens to be delicious and very ethical to consume

However I'm pretty sure that crocodiles (and sharks) don't like human meat so they will grab you and spit you out.

 

[D.P.]

Biologically we're omnivores, by evolution. Why else would we eat meat and plants? Show me a herbivore that wants to eat meat?

But who actually cares? Of course we evolved to be omnivores, no one has ever disputed that. But that also means we function perfectly healthily on a pure vegetarian diet.

The ethical debate has nothing to do with what humans have evolved to do, but the actual suffering caused by intensive factory farming of animals, and moreover, the environmental impact that will be partly responsible for billions of deaths over the next couple hundred years.

 

[D.P.]

That's why we take care to cook it properly.



We're omnivores. Our species has been happily eating meat for tens of thousands of years.

But not meat in high quantities or frequently, but as occasional sources of fats and proteins, especially as most human physiology evolved long before we learned how to hunt successfully. We evolved an omnivorous diet in order to maximize survival in harsher environments, but throughout our evolution by far the most common dietary constituent has been plants.

 

[RoboCod]

weird to me how some of you most likley have pets in your unfulfilled urban lives ,but will happily eat cows sheep ect ,surrounded by them and although they scare the hell out of me they have amazing intelligence and individual traits similar to or above our furry freinds indoors

You have issues. Suggest you go sort them.

 

[D.P.]

However I'm pretty sure that crocodiles (and sharks) don't like human meat so they will grab you and spit you out.

Sharks don't like the bones, they prefer animals with much higher muscle and fat ratios. Most shark attacks are tester bites, they chump down and find too much hard bone along with flailing arms and legs. Of course, form a big shark the tester bite can easily be fatal. This is why oyu see so many shark victims with a huge bite across the lower legs but then the shark just swam off. Simialrly lots of surfers with shakr bites in their boards.

Crocodiles do eat humans by choice though.

 

[mmj_uk]

I like how a thread about whether sacking a militant vegan for attacking his own employer over of his beliefs is religious discrimination or not has turned into a thread with vegans telling us how evil we all are.

 

[MadMossy]

Or think of the suffering people will have to endure in a trillion years time.

I'm am sure that in how ever many hundreds of years time future generations will have far greater things to worry about than the ethical ideals of eating meat.

alien invasions, space pirates to name but 2 could be possible.

 

[D.P.]

Cows, sheep, etc. are domesticated animals. They cannot survive in the wild, and they're nowhere near as intelligent as dogs. They also taste delicious, and their meat is very good for us.

Actually, cows, pigs and most farm yard animals are far more intelligent than Dogs. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...shows-theyre-bright-and-emotional-individuals

Dogs evolved to basically be cute to humans and be easily trained but they are about as dumb a mammal as you can get.

As to their survival in the wild, well sheep pretty much live in the wild without much human intervention. Help is given during lambing to maximize success but when left to their own devices sheep do just fine, they aren';t that different to the many wild sheep. The same goes for pigs. Pigs would survive in a forest environment quite readily, they eat anything and nothing farmers provide them is that important. Cows are a bit mixed, beef cattle have huge difficulties during birth due to selection pressures of sizing. Dairy cattle need constant milking, but that is only because they are artificially inseminated and their calfs slaughtered. In the wild many cow breeds would do OK, in the same way wild horses flourish., Chickens of course are perfectly happy in the wild. GO to Maui and they are all over the place.
In fact, domestic dogs are the one animal that struggles to survive in the wild very well. They have really lost their pack hunting skills and have very much adapted to require human feeding.



But I don't really get what point you were trying to make anyway. Just because something has been bred with traits for human consumption doesn't somehow annul any ethical issues. Dogs are bred in Korea for human meat eaters, des this some how put the dogs at a level playing field with cows?
The ethical issues of animal consumption has nothing to do with the act of eating meat but entirely to do with the way animals are raised and the environmental impact of doing that.

 

[D.P.]

I like how a thread about whether sacking a militant vegan for attacking his own employer over of his beliefs is religious discrimination or not has turned into a thread with vegans telling us how evil we all are.

I think there is only one vegan in this thread, and his posts and arguments are stupid. But then, a load of meat eaters iare also posting stupid nonsense.

 

[D.P.]

Or think of the suffering people will have to endure in a trillion years time.

I'm am sure that in how ever many hundreds of years time future generations will have far greater things to worry about than the ethical ideals of eating meat.

alien invasions, space pirates to name but 2 could be possible.

Or catastrophic climate change, the annihilation of thousands of animal species and antibiotic resistant super bacteria.


Animal rearing contributes 15% of all greenhouse gas emissions, more than all types of transportation combined. Climate change will soon be responsible for the deaths of several million people a year directly.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

TBH a suffering we will have to endure in the future will be the effects of climate change as well as famine . Curbing our meat consumption to reasonable levels to make best use of already cleared land and minimize deforestation can have a massive impact on our carbon footprint .

I've cut down meat consumption this year just because i think the price we pay comes at the expense of things like the environment, poor animal ethics, poor employer ethics (half way across the world where third world country land is used for cheap animal feed) and poor food quality (for cheap places like McDonalds).

I haven't given up meat but i eat far less and mainly eat meats with a much lower environmental footprint

 

[D.P.]

TBH a suffering we will have to endure in the future will be the effects of climate change as well as famine . Curbing our meat consumption to reasonable levels to make best use of already cleared land and minimize deforestation can have a massive impact on our carbon footprint .

I've cut down meat consumption this year just because i think the price we pay comes at the expense of things like the environment, poor animal ethics, poor employer ethics (half way across the world where third world country land is used for cheap animal feed) and poor food quality (for cheap places like McDonalds).

I haven't given up meat but i eat far less and mainly eat meats with a much lower environmental footprint

Same here, I eat far less meat and try to ensure it is local and more ethically reared. Better for the environment, better for the animals, and better for your health. I then also find it makes eating meat more enjoyable, instead of just some protein source shoved on your plate the quality of meats like grassfed local beef when eaten as a nice treat increases the satisfaction immeasurably. When you eat vegetarian most days a week then a simple dish with some meat in it becomes instantly very different and more enjoyable than ever before. It is getting to the point where I am almost put off eating meat sometimes. I;'ve been making so many vegetarian curries that are so tasty that I now don't bother adding any chicken to a curry at all, it just seems like a pointless tasteless lump of protein - rather I I wait and get some local lamb to make soemthign more special with the curry.

 

[stockhausen]

. . .
Animal rearing contributes 15% of all greenhouse gas emissions
. . .

As a matter of interest, do you have a source for this figure?
Does it apply to Poland where the Katowice Climate Change Conference is taking place?

 

[Sankari]

Actually, cows, pigs and most farm yard animals are far more intelligent than Dogs. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...shows-theyre-bright-and-emotional-individuals

This article does not prove that assertion. If cows, pigs, and most farm yard animals were far more intelligent than dogs, they'd be far more useful to us, and we'd be able to do a lot more with them.

Dogs evolved to basically be cute to humans and be easily trained but they are about as dumb a mammal as you can get.

Dogs have been bred for loyalty, strength, stamina, and intelligence. Dumb? Not even close. Dogs are as intelligent as a 2 year old human, which puts them pretty high on the cognitive ladder compared to other animals.

Let me know when someone manages to train a cow or a pig to do all the stuff that dogs can do.

Can a pig be taught to lead a blind person? Nope. Can a cow be taught to detect their diabetic owner's insulin level, and warn when it is too low? Nope.

You can teach a dog to count up to five. Pigs and cows cannot count at all.

As to their survival in the wild, well sheep pretty much live in the wild without much human intervention. Help is given during lambing to maximize success but when left to their own devices sheep do just fine, they aren';t that different to the many wild sheep. The same goes for pigs. Pigs would survive in a forest environment quite readily, they eat anything and nothing farmers provide them is that important.

I'll give you pigs and sheep, but only if they're in a place with no natural predators. I never mentioned chickens, though of course they'd be out of luck at the sign of the first fox. Cows would be screwed.

In fact, domestic dogs are the one animal that struggles to survive in the wild very well.

Really? The one animal? Evidence please.

They have really lost their pack hunting skills and have very much adapted to require human feeding.

Nonsense. Dogs don't need a pack to hunt, and the medium to large breeds would cope well. The smaller and toy breeds wouldn't cope at all, of course.

But I don't really get what point you were trying to make anyway. Just because something has been bred with traits for human consumption doesn't somehow annul any ethical issues. Dogs are bred in Korea for human meat eaters, des this some how put the dogs at a level playing field with cows?

I'm not talking about ethical issues. I don't think it is any less ethical to eat a dog than a cow. But there are many practical reasons why eating cows is better than eating dogs.