Agent Orange endorses Bonker Boris.

Roar87 said:
Obama literally told people to vote Remain
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Source?

I believe in his televised address and his Telegraph op-ed he put forward a strong case for why he thought the UK should stay in the EU, but I don't recall the part where he literally told people to vote remain.

In his op-ed, he even says "ultimately, the question of whether or not the UK remains a part of the EU is a matter for British voters to decide for yourselves."
 
Roar87 said:
Do you understand that using your influence to affect a democratic vote is different to saying you like Boris Johnson when there's just an internal vote within a party going on, the former is likely to affect the outcome of a democratic vote, the latter isn't affecting anything because the public aren't voting and MPs likely have their own opinions and won't really care about Trumps views.
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Obama expressing the USA's trading position with the UK in the event of Brexit is not necessarily political interference in an unethical way, however. Nor are Trump's remarks. Knowing what the position of the USA is in either of the given outcomes is a relevant piece of information the electorate can factor into their decision.

That said, Obama's statement was clearly calculated to affect the vote and was unlikely to match up with reality, so there's an ethical question there as regards his honesty. The USA was never going to "send the UK to the back of the queue" for trade.
 
Irish_Tom said:
Source?

I believe in his televised address and his Telegraph op-ed he put forward a strong case for why he thought the UK should stay in the EU, but I don't recall the part where he literally told people to vote remain.

In his op-ed, he even says "ultimately, the question of whether or not the UK remains a part of the EU is a matter for British voters to decide for yourselves."
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No you're right, he didn't literally say that, he made his views on how people should vote very clear though, when really he shouldn't at all use his influence to affect a vote. Considering all the drama around Russian bots affecting the outcome of their elections as well.
 
Evangelion said:
Show me where I'm wrong. May has fought to get her deal passed time and time again. If she was genuinely trying to stop Brexit, she would have scuttled it more than a year ago.
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Scuttling it a year ago would have been political suicide.

Whether May has done the best she could or not is neither here nor there. She has totally mismanaged the situation to give us an agreement that is unacceptable to even her own party. Why? Because she's a Remainer.

The moment she took No Deal off the table she showed that. Because even if she thought No Deal was never a practical option (I think it's the best option, but that's another matter) she should have kept it on the table to maximise Britain's position.
 
The UK weren't even prepared for no deal

the EU were fully prepared. - having been planning since Dec 2017.

May has access to a lot more information than you/us regarding the true impact on a no deal Brexit.

It was always a stupid bluffing position and anyone who expects the EU to capitulate at the last minute, is in cloud cuckoo land.
 
VincentHanna said:
The UK weren't even prepared for no deal

the EU were fully prepared. - having been planning since Dec 2017.

May has access to a lot more information than you/us regarding the true impact on a no deal Brexit.

It was always a stupid bluffing position and anyone who expects the EU to capitulate at the last minute, is in cloud cuckoo land.
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I don't expect no deal to cause them to capitulate, I do believe it will pressure them into making some additional concessions. Not that it matters to me if they don't, as no deal is a totally viable outcome for me.

And May might have access to all the information there possibly is, but that doesn't alter her own bias or the bias present in the information. People see what they want to see.
 
There was even a wall – the high one which encloses Buckingham Palace gardens – which served to keep the racist warmonger Agent Orange well away from the public at the start of his three-day visit, most of which will be conducted behind closed doors and well away from the planned protests.

Security concerns meant the ceremonial welcome was held on the palace lawn instead of nearby Horse Guards Parade. So there was no ride in a gilded carriage, thus no risk of a repeat of the welcome afforded China’s president, Xi Jinping, who ran the gauntlet of mass protests along the Mall.
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Well that can't be right :confused:

The prevailing wisdom amongst the enthusiastic admirers of Agent Orange on here is that China’s president was welcomed to Great Britain ;)
 
stockhausen said:
Well that can't be right :confused:

The prevailing wisdom amongst the enthusiastic admirers of Agent Orange on here is that China’s president was welcomed to Great Britain ;)
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How dishonest can you get to pretend the protests against Xi Jinping are comparable to those against Trump. Or that the coverage of protests is similar, either.

Trump protest:
donald-trump-protests-massive-security-operation-begins-with-250.jpg


Largest gathering of people protesting Jinping that I could find:
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And we're still wondering how Trump's campaign is identical to Hitler's.
 
Roar87 said:
No you're right, he didn't literally say that, he made his views on how people should vote very clear though, when really he shouldn't at all use his influence to affect a vote. Considering all the drama around Russian bots affecting the outcome of their elections as well.
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I think @h4rm0ny summed it up quite well. You should either be outraged by both Obama and Trump's 'interference' with UK politics or accept them both as being entitled to express their opinion. Having said that, I appreciate that there is a difference between expressing an opinion in a national newspaper op-ed and in a joint media conference with the sitting Prime Minister, and simply stating your views in a media interview.

Of course, most people who are pro-Brexit will decry Obama's statement and accept Trump's and vice-versa for pro-Remain voters — it's basic cognitive bias.

Roar87 said:
Do you know what the GREAT thing about that is? We can elect another government if we don't like that. What a crazy concept.
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The problem is, once the process has started it would be very difficult to halt or reverse it, and it wouldn't necessarily garner enough support from the public to reverse it once it was established. Look at most previously state-owned institutions as an example:
  • Implement an *unofficial* policy of chronic underfunding for ideological reasons.
  • Blame the inevitable failures on the fact that the institution is state-owned.
  • Privatise the institution for a song because it's 'failing'.
  • Continue to give public money to the institution in the form of subsidies etc. even though it's meant to be privatised.
  • Now that the institution is being properly funded it performs better.
  • The public support the privatisation even though they are paying more than they otherwise would have done had the institution remained in public hands but been adequately funded in the first place.
It's a pattern and I have no doubt that the same thing would happen to the NHS if we let it.
 
The protests are basically a bunch of brainwashed kids who've been repeatedly told they know best and 50 year old hippies who have been whipped up into a frenzy by the media, it's like the Speakers Corner Trump thread in pictures. The Trump sat on a toilet statue and baby blimp are kinda funny but reflects more on the childishness of the protestors.
 
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It looks like the organisers overestimated the turnout.

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How many trees had to be cut down for those wasted signs? protect the environment you say?
 
VincentHanna said:
And do you live in Northern Ireland?
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Ultimately the UK and ROI and are just not the same country, we voted to leave the EU and that means there may necessarily be a border between the 2 countries if the EU wish to create one. I don't believe the UK will create one though and I'm not sure Ireland want one either. It seems to me like an EU/Irish problem.
 
Roar87 said:
Ultimately the UK and ROI and are just not the same country, we voted to leave the EU and that means there may necessarily be a border between the 2 countries if the EU wish to create one. I don't believe the UK will create one though and I'm not sure Ireland want one either. It seems to me like an EU/Irish problem.
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That's just nonsense. In order to comply with WTO rules, the UK must have a consistent border with all other members. If we have an open border the ROI, we have an open border to the rest of the World.

If we don't then we will effectively start a trade war with everybody else on the planet.

edit, oh sorry, I forgot Iran, Sudan et al who aren't even members of the WTO. I suppose we should go and join the rest of the pariahs?
 
inogen said:
That's just nonsense. In order to comply with WTO rules, the UK must have a consistent border with all other members. If we have an open border the ROI, we have an open border to the rest of the World.

If we don't then we will effectively start a trade war with everybody else on the planet.

edit, oh sorry, I forgot Iran, Sudan et al who aren't even members of the WTO. I suppose we should go and join the rest of the pariahs?
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https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ire...eu-or-uk-to-erect-hard-irish-border-1.3710136

That's wrong then?
 
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