Darren Pencille murder trial

[Roar87]

Crazy people are trying to call it self defence, how are we in a world where an argument on a train ends up in someone stabbed to death and people are like "oh yeah he shouldn't have followed him", sure yeah - I wouldn't of carried on an argument on a train - but that's basically irrelevant as the force used was so disproportionate, what the discussion was about before hand doesn't matter. You could argue self defence if he was on top of him punching his face in, not stood infront of him arguing.

 

[Akagi]

I've never stabbed anyone. But I'd imagine stabbing someone once isn't going to stop them being aggressive, it would probably inflame them more.

I know its shaky ground when talking about a knife. But in that situation it could be a mitigating factor that he felt physically threatened by someone and he grabbed a weapon.

If some 'big man' is shouting at me on public transport, following me, then I'm striking first. Because if he does then I might be beaten to a pulp.

The big guy picked on the wrong person who had a dangerous weapon to hand and paid the price. He should have stopped chasing the guy around and stayed with his kid.

I imagine pulling a knife out will be enough to make them leave you alone. This was murder of the first degree and I find it completely baffling that people are defending someone who stabbed a man 18 times???!!

 

[BowdonUK]

The problem for the defendant and the argument of self-defense, is that the evidence shows he made a phone call to his girlfriend and said he was going to "kill this man" so the intention is there and undisputed, so I don't think it can be successfully argued that it's not murder, because it clearly was.

You can't really ring someone up and say you're going to kill someone, then subsequently after killing them with a knife - argue it was self defense, it's folly.

Where are you seeing that he called her up before he did anything? On the BBC link it says he called her hours after saying he'd done something bad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-48786426

The man accused of murdering a passenger on a train called his ex-partner hours later and told her "I've done something bad", a court has heard.

I think the bit you're refering to is when he's talking to his phone during the confrontation.

I imagine pulling a knife out will be enough to make them leave you alone. This was murder of the first degree and I find it completely baffling that people are defending someone who stabbed a man 18 times???!!

The guy had mental issues. I'm not saying its ok to stab anyone. I'm saying it wasnt murder, it was manslaughter.

I think people think when they stab someone that person will collapse. But in reality they don't, and once you've started I imagine he just continued until the guy fell over. It's like when people throw themselves off buildings they think they are going to be instantly dead. But that rarely happens. This guy shouldnt have been carrying a knife. I'm not defending him stabbing anyone, I'm just putting forward an idea or what he might have thought he was doing.

 

[Dis86]

Where are you seeing that he called her up before he did anything? On the BBC link it says he called her hours after saying he'd done something bad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-48786426



I think the bit you're refering to is when he's talking to his phone during the confrontation.



The guy had mental issues. I'm not saying its ok to stab anyone. I'm saying it wasnt murder, it was manslaughter.

I think people think when they stab someone that person will collapse. But in reality they don't, and once you've started I imagine he just continued until the guy fell over. It's like when people throw themselves off buildings they think they are going to be instantly dead. But that rarely happens. This guy shouldnt have been carrying a knife. I'm not defending him stabbing anyone, I'm just putting forward an idea or what he might have thought he was doing.

He literally said he was going to murder him!

 

[Akagi]

Mental some people. Not on about the murderer this time either.

 

[Malevolence]

Murder requires an intention to kill someone. The guy was walking away from him.

How about the part where he holds his phone up to the guy's face, probably on a facetime call, and tells his fat gash that "I'M GOING TO KILL THIS GUY"? Does that constitute an intent to kill?

 

[MrWhippy]

Fair enough, the deceased didn't help himself by his actions, but that's a whole lot easier to say with hindsight. Laying blame on him or suggesting that the defendant carries less blame for the outcome because of the deceased's "contribution", to me feels a lot like calling out rape victims for what they wear.
He was pushing the guys buttons, so he must have been asking for it.

Really, this was a bad situation that got worse, there were no winners. Proportionate response? Someone went the extra mile. I'm struggling to see the scales anywhere near balanced.

 

[enkoda]

Where are you seeing that he called her up before he did anything? On the BBC link it says he called her hours after saying he'd done something bad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-48786426



I think the bit you're refering to is when he's talking to his phone during the confrontation.



The guy had mental issues. I'm not saying its ok to stab anyone. I'm saying it wasnt murder, it was manslaughter.

I think people think when they stab someone that person will collapse. But in reality they don't, and once you've started I imagine he just continued until the guy fell over. It's like when people throw themselves off buildings they think they are going to be instantly dead. But that rarely happens. This guy shouldnt have been carrying a knife. I'm not defending him stabbing anyone, I'm just putting forward an idea or what he might have thought he was doing.

Giving evidence from behind a screen, Ms Carter said the pair had an argument, during which Mr Pencille had picked up his mobile phone and said: "I'm going to kill this man."

Pencille admitted he was going to kill Pomeroy after the initial altercation, the self-defence argument doesn't enter the equation.

 

[Andybtsn]

The bigger victim is still alive and has to live for the rest of his life having seen his dad brutally murdered.

 

[TJM]

The guy had mental issues. I'm not saying its ok to stab anyone. I'm saying it wasnt murder, it was manslaughter.

If the prosecution can't prove that he wasn't acting in self-defence, he will be acquitted - not convicted of manslaughter. He may have diminished responsibility due to mental illness but that would be for the defence to raise later.

Murder requires an intention to kill someone. The guy was walking away from him.

An intention to cause serious injury will do and an intention can be formed immediately before (as in virtually simultaneously with) the act. Whether or not an act is premeditated isn't relevant in this country outside of determining the sentence, which will be a higher for a planned offence.

 

[mmj_uk]

The guy reportedly initiated the conflict by accusing his victim of blocking the isle and allegedly ordering him to get off at the next stop, it sounds to me like he was spoiling for a fight. but hey.. everyone's a victim nowadays even knife carrying murderers. Up is down, left is right.

 

[Screeeech]

Where are you seeing that he called her up before he did anything? On the BBC link it says he called her hours after saying he'd done something bad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-48786426

From the link;

Giving evidence from behind a screen, Ms Carter said the pair had an argument, during which Mr Pencille had picked up his mobile phone and said: "I'm going to kill this man."

It seems he didn't call someone, but he said it whilst holding his phone - either way, the intent was clear.

 

[HardwareGeek]

The bigger victim is still alive and has to live for the rest of his life having seen his dad brutally murdered.

seen some quotes from the kid and they don't show the dad in the best light, make him sound intimidating, quick to anger and aggressive, clenched fists..... so......maybe too early to assume they had a good relationship if that is how he describes his dad

 

[Malevolence]

Nothing like a good old bit of victim blaming to get the blood pumping, eh?

 

[plasmahal]

I think it will be a case of Voluntary manslaughter.

Voluntary manslaughter – whereby the defendant is found to have had the intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm to the victim. This conviction can only stand if the defendant pleads one of two partial defences against an offence of murder – loss of self control or reduced mental capacity. Without either of these defences, the offence will be classified as murder.

There seems to be either professional trolls or idiots that think the killer was in any way justified. From the video posted, the victim was not aggressive but was confrontational at most. An unfortunate bad life choice to continue the argument which is all it was up until the moment the killer lost control.

 

[Vexr]

Really don't understand some on here. 5-10 years ago the stabbing of anyone to death who wasn't in the process of trying to murder you would be indefensible in this country. Just carrying a knife out in public was pretty much indefensible and would only be attributed to the most malign creatures of society.

Now a lot of folks here are sounding like Americans with the 'stand your ground' law. Entertaining the idea that this was anything less than cold blooded murder feels to me like its legitimising the carrying and use of knives in much the same way many Americans consider the carrying and use of guns normal for use in circumstances of a perceived but not actual threat.

stand-your-ground law (sometimes called "line in the sand" or "no duty to retreat" law) establishes a right by which a person may defend one's self or others (right of self-defense) against threats or perceived threats, even to the point of applying lethal force, regardless of whether safely retreating from the situation might have been possible. Such a law typically states that an individual has no duty to retreat from any place where they have a lawful right to be[1] (though this varies from state to state) and that they may use any level of force if they reasonably believe the threat rises to the level of being an imminent and immediate threat of serious bodily harm and/or death.

Is this the US-style can of worms we want opened here in the UK?

 

[Efour]

18 stabs in 25 seconds......
The guys a psychopath. Self-defence my ass.
The victim was a moron too but Mr stabby attempted and succeeded to murder his way out of a pointless confrontation.

 

[mattyfez]

The bit I don't see on the cctv is exactly what triggered the argument.

It looks as if the suit guy had literally got on the train, then goes slightly off camera, presumably to do the typical faf people do when sitting down on a train sometimes, and Mr stabby tried to barge past (an assumption as it's just off camera but Mr stabby seemed to not want to wait for Mr suit to sit down ) and then got all shirty and started mouthing off a suit man.

 

[builder22]

Crazy people are trying to call it self defence

I know...this is off the charts.

 

[iamtheoneneo]

Pretty sure its gonna be murder.
Self defense has limitations. The main one being around proportionate use of force.

Stabbing someone that many times is anything but proportionate. Guys a psycho...