England Riots and food shortages.

[Rroff]

No.
Leaving the EU is a separate thing from the trading relationship we will have with them afterwards.
For example, if you left a job, your employment status afterwards would be a separate thing from you leaving that job.

The reason that deal/no deal has been attached to leaving the EU, is to try and stop us leaving the EU.
"We can't leave without deal" = "we can't leave the EU".

UKIP had the best answer to this, which of course is why they were attacked relentlessly: leave the EU, THEN negotiate with them to see if they want free trade with us.

This isn't like leaving a job though - we will still maintain a relationship with the EU after leaving, leaving will also upset many of our existing agreements with other countries that aren't themselves part of the EU due to us working, upto the point of leaving, within the framework of the EU.

Your thinking frankly is dead wrong.

 

[Diddums]

No.
Leaving the EU is a separate thing from the trading relationship we will have with them afterwards.
For example, if you left a job, your employment status afterwards would be a separate thing from you leaving that job.

The reason that deal/no deal has been attached to leaving the EU, is to try and stop us leaving the EU.
"We can't leave without deal" = "we can't leave the EU".

UKIP had the best answer to this, which of course is why they were attacked relentlessly: leave the EU, THEN negotiate with them to see if they want free trade with us.

Oh shut up ffs.

 

[vanillaface]

This isn't like leaving a job though - we will still maintain a relationship with the EU after leaving, leaving will also upset many of our existing agreements with other countries that aren't themselves part of the EU due to us working, upto the point of leaving, within the framework of the EU.

Your thinking frankly is dead wrong.

Of course it's not like leaving a job. I was merely illustrating that leaving the EU is separate to the relationship we will have with them afterwards.

A person is able to leave their job without having another one sorted afterwards in advance. Those are separate things.
A person can leave his house regardless of whether he will wear a raincoat or walk or drive. Those are separate things.

Whether we trade with the EU on WTO, or develop a free trade deal with them, is separate from the act of leaving the EU, and would also be advantageous in terms of trade, to the situation we are in now.
Of course, leaving the EU is nothing to do with trade anyway, as it is about the principle of being a self-governing nation once again.
It has been conflated with trade, in order to throw obstacles in the way of us leaving.

Leaving the EU is actually a very simple thing.

 

[vanillaface]

Oh shut up ffs.

I love it when remainers encounter someone who is able to see through their BS

 

[Rroff]

A person is able to leave their job without having another one sorted afterwards in advance. Those are separate things.

Which is essentially no deal.

Whether we trade with the EU on WTO, or develop a free trade deal with them, is separate from the act of leaving the EU, and would also be advantageous in terms of trade, to the situation we are in now.

If we leave without a transitional agreement in place that effectively hard ends most of our current deals. We then have to negotiate deals post leaving from a very bad position.

This is nothing like leaving a job because with leaving a job you rarely depend in any way on a future relationship with that employer beyond maybe providing a reference.

 

[Diddums]

I love it when remainers encounter someone who is able to see through their BS

I'm a remainer am I? Care to share how you come to this conclusion?

 

[vanillaface]

Which is essentially no deal.

Exactly.

"No deal" = leaving the EU.
This is why they say, "we cannot leave without a deal", because they don't want to leave the EU.

When it comes to leaving the EU, there is no such thing as "no deal Brexit"; there is only leaving_the_EU or not_leaving_the_EU.
There is only one type of Brexit, but many types of remain.

If we leave without a transitional agreement in place that effectively hard ends most of our current deals. We then have to negotiate deals post leaving from a very bad position.

No, we have a good position.
The entire world wants tariff-free access to our market.
Especially, of course, German car manufacturers, and who is the primary group which the EU is run on behalf of? That's right - German engineering.

This is nothing like leaving a job because with leaving a job you rarely depend in any way on a future relationship with that employer beyond maybe providing a reference.

Like I said, it is not like leaving a job.
I was merely making the point that a situation which an entity is in after leaving something, is separate from leaving that thing.
Wearing a raincoat in the street is separate form leaving your house.
Working for this employer or that employer is separate from leaving your former employer.
Future trading relationship with the EU is separate from leaving the EU.

 

[vanillaface]

I'm a remainer am I? Care to share how you come to this conclusion?

Because you would have agreed with me if you were not a remainer.

 

[Martynt74]

I'm a remainer am I? Care to share how you come to this conclusion?

Presumably because you disagree with him.

Much the same as how in the other thread someone said that anyone who critisised Corbyn held far right views, rather than just thinking he's a bit of a knob

 

[Bounce]

this forum is full of salty remainers, who have been chewing on fake news and propaganda for the last three years.

 

[Kenai]

Future trading relationship with the EU is separate from leaving the EU.

This remains the case with a Withdrawal Agreement though.

The WA is only a temporary agreement, aimed at preventing a blunt shock to everything at midnight on the leaving date. It isn't a long term agreement of the future trading relationships, those discussions would start after.

 

[Diddums]

Because you would have agreed with me if you were not a remainer.

Does every brexiteer share your opinion then?

 

[Dis86]

Presumably because you disagree with him.

Much the same as how in the other thread someone said that anyone who critisised Corbyn held far right views, rather than just thinking he's a bit of a knob

 

[vanillaface]

"The square root of nine is three."

"No it isn't! Shut up!"

"You must not be very good at maths."

"How did you come to that conclusion?"

"Because you didn't know that the square root of nine is three."

 

[vanillaface]

Does every brexiteer share your opinion then?

It's not an opinion.

 

[Diddums]

It's not an opinion.

Prove it.



Edit: just to prevent the inevitable wall of drivel going on for too long, let me clarify that all I’m asking you to prove is why UKIP’s solution is the best. I don’t care about the rest of your post.

 

[Nasher]

I suspect we will have to resort to canabalism within a week.

Might solve the obesity issue though.

 

[Freakbro]

Of course it's not like leaving a job. I was merely illustrating that leaving the EU is separate to the relationship we will have with them afterwards.

If it's not like leaving a job

A person is able to leave their job without having another one sorted afterwards in advance. Those are separate things.

Why do you keep using leaving your job analogies as a comparison?

The use of the word 'deal' when talking about leaving clouds the water imo. The 'deal' of a trade relationship is done after we leave, yes that is correct and we haven't even started with this yet. The 'Withdrawal Agreement' is the 'deal' to move us from the position of being entwined with the EU legally, politically and with our current trading agreements (with the EU and the rest of the world) to a position of being outside all of that. Yes we can just 'walk away' with no withdrawal agreement, but this option will cause the most disruption to our economy and has a high degree of risk of causing severe economic instability. It also puts us in a weaker position when we then start to negotiate the free trade deal with the EU, US and everyone else.

The point to the WA is to extricate ourselves as smoothly as possible causing the least disruption to our economy, which if you think about it logically, is a strategy that is hard to argue against.

The good thing about the WA was that we could start all the FTA's we wanted, with the EU, US and everyone else whilst still in the current CU & SM and have them ready to kick in when we finish our FTA with the EU and finally leave. Yes, this isn't going to happen instantly, it is going to take years. But it shouldn't be that long since the FTA with the EU will be the easiest deal in history. But it's taken us 40 years to get this entwined, it was never going to happen in 5 minutes, 5 years would be pretty quick imo.

That would also give us the time to go through our legislation to rewrite what we need. So why all the impatience? Hell, JRM said it might take 50 years before we could look back and see if it was a success, so what's 5 years to make sure you do it as smoothly and with the least disruption as possible.

The irony being, if the ERG, who say they want to leave the EU the most, had voted for TMs deal, we would already be on that road to finally leaving

 

[vanillaface]

Prove it.



Edit: just to prevent the inevitable wall of drivel going on for too long, let me clarify that all I’m asking you to prove is why UKIP’s solution is the best. I don’t care about the rest of your post.

Because it delivers on the referendum result.

1. Leave EU (this delivers on the referendum result).
2. Once outside of the EU, with the referendum result fulfilled, offer the EU one of two things:
2a. Free trade.
2b. WTO.
3. EU picks what they want, or offers something else.
4. Whatever happens, the referendum result has been delivered as we are out of the EU.

How to do it if you don't want to leave the EU.
1. Say "we cannot leave without a deal".
2. This gives the EU the upper hand in negotiations, as they can offer whatever deal they like which is great for them and bad for us.
3. Therefore, we either:
3a. Stay in the EU as we are now (what remainers want).
3b. Have Brexit In Name Only (BRINO - what remainers who are tasked with taking us out of the EU will settle for, for example, Theresa May's treaty).

The former was UKIP's position since before the referendum. UKIP were, at the time, the only party to want to deliver Brexit. The usual suspects were all remain. Big business is remain. Corporate media was nearly all remain, and has become more so since the referendum with the changes at the Express and Daily Mail.
Gerard Batten repeated many times that the former was the only way to do it, and was attacked relentlessly.

 

[Feek]

This has turned into a Brexit thread. Please keep all Brexit discussion in the thread in Speaker's Corner.