EV general discussion

[jpaul]

The reduction in power, with discharge, must be common to other electric vehicles, but can't see other articles, presumably it is to protect the battery life cycles,
since if you look at underlying lithium technology https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/discharge_characteristics_li
they can support high current discharge until near exhaustion, with that caveat.

- adjunct to this is extensive use of rapid charge can itself be bad for life time cycles (back on the 800mile daily trips need)

 

[Jez]

tbh I’ve never really heard of anyone doing 800-1000 miles a day and I’m willing to bet you’re in an absolute minuscule proportion of car owners so frankly your needs don’t matter to car makers.

The sheer number of 200k+ mile 3 year old E/S-Class private hires which go through BCA disagree with you! The market in this segment is there i think, but the cars are not there to meet it yet.

 

[chroniclard]

The sheer number of 200k+ mile 3 year old E/S-Class private hires which go through BCA disagree with you!

If you drove all day at 60mph it would take over 13 hours to do 800 miles. So this is pretty far fetched to do on a regular basis isnt it?

 

[Journey]

The sheer number of 200k+ mile 3 year old E/S-Class private hires which go through BCA disagree with you!

That's not 800-1000 miles per day, more like 200 miles per day for 300 days of the year, over a few years.

 

[Jez]

That's not 800-1000 miles per day, more like 200 miles per day for 300 days of the year, over a few years.

I'm not sure what your point is? He doesnt do that every day, but he does some days. I'd bet most private hires are the same. Of course some days you'll be local which will bring the average down.

 

[Jez]

If you drove all day at 60mph it would take over 13 hours to do 800 miles. So this is pretty far fetched to do on a regular basis isnt it?

He doesnt claim to do it on a particularly regular basis But clearly a private hire will so it sometimes, and when you do need to do it, you can hardly ask your passengers to wait around for hours while you recharge your EV half way down the M1, can you?

 

[Journey]

I'm not sure what your point is? He doesnt do that every day, but he does some days. I'd bet most private hires are the same. Of course some days you'll be local which will bring the average down.

My point was with reference to the high mileage young private hire vehicles... Or did you just comment and forget what you wrote?

 

[Jez]

My point was with reference to the high mileage young private hire vehicles... Or did you just comment and forget what you wrote?

? I referenced that there are an awful lot of people doing similar high mileage usage patterns to that of the posted 233 above. The private hire market and similar is not a particularly small one which the OEMs do not care about, which was what i quoted.

To make it easier for you, 233 is a private hire driver who sometimes might do up to 1000 miles in a day. This was then commented upon as being a very rare usage scenario which an OEM will not care about. I do not agree with this, referencing the high number of very high mileage ex private hire cars which regularly hit auction houses.

The market is clearly there, IMO, its just that the tech hasnt got there just yet.

 

[Journey]

You are assuming high mileage means long distances by extrapolating from one persons use case. There are far more Private hire who do 200-300 miles per day on short journeys many days a week.

I'm not arguing the point about the 800-1000 mile journeys not being practical for some, but the way you make an assumption that this is the case for most young, high mileage vehicles going through BCA, just huge assumptions. End of.

 

[Jez]

Yes, assumptions both ways are in play. Obviously I do not agree that the requirement for a high mileage occasional run as a private hire user is a rare one within that user group. Private hires will have different usage cases with every user, obviously. There are a huge number of private hire vehicles, therefore in line with that huge number, i think it is a very safe assumption that the number of drivers who may be required to do high mileage within one day is also a high number.

Just what is your point and why are you even arguing with me? Everything i have said is very valid.

 

[chroniclard]

He doesnt claim to do it on a particularly regular basis But clearly a private hire will so it sometimes, and when you do need to do it, you can hardly ask your passengers to wait around for hours while you recharge your EV half way down the M1, can you?

I see, well its clear EV is next to useless for that kind of distance driving, for now.

 

[Jez]

I see, well its clear EV is next to useless for that kind of distance driving, for now.

Yep indeed, it'll get there. I am very pro EV and am not knocking them at all, hopefully within the medium term they will get there to cater for all users

 

[Journey]

Just what is your point and why are you even arguing with me? Everything i have said is very valid.

I wasn't arguing, I pointed out a flaw in your original assumption where you said "The sheer number of 200k+ mile 3 year old E/S-Class private hires which go through BCA disagree with you!" against the comment "tbh I’ve never really heard of anyone doing 800-1000 miles a day and I’m willing to bet you’re in an absolute minuscule proportion of car owners so frankly your needs don’t matter to car makers."

I think the number of people who do 800-1000 miles in a normal non-commercial (van/truck etc.) vehicle are indeed minuscule as per the comment you replied to, the logic that just because there are some high mileage vehicles in the auctions doesn't support the fact the percentage is not small. As I said it is far, far more likely that these cars do 200 miles per day.

When was the last time you took a Taxi 400-500 miles?

 

[Jez]

I completely disagree with you, which you need to accept rather than getting upset. I believe that there is a large market of private hire cars which will occasionally, or at least be required to be able to, do high mileage, sometimes.

Perhaps i am off the mark, you clearly seem to think so. But i dont think so. You asked about when i last booked a taxi for some reason; I dont ever get Taxis, and rarely book private hire cars, but my personal lack of taxi use is not relevant here.

What a stupid discussion which has now gone totally off piste.

 

[Journey]

I completely disagree with you, which you need to accept rather than getting upset.

What a daft comment, it is a discussion forum, we are having a discussion just because you think you are correct doesn't mean you are. Nor the same for I.

I asked you about the Taxi since isn't that how you find out, by surveying people if they have ever done something and if it is common? For reference the longest journey I've ever done was Manchester Airport to Heathrow due to a plane cancellation. It's relevant based on your assumption, no?

What a stupid discussion which has now gone totally off piste.

Is it not based around the suitability of the vehicle, you started it by using something to do with car auctions, and mileages, that was going off piste.

 

[Jez]

When will you stop

We disagree about that market size, that is what this boils down to, to get back to basics.

Perhaps i am wrong, perhaps you are wrong. At the very least we can agree that it will be great when EVs can cater to all users by increasing range over time

 

[Journey]

When will you stop

We disagree about that market size, that is what this boils down to, to get back to basics.

Perhaps i am wrong, perhaps you are wrong. At the very least we can agree that it will be great when EVs can cater to all users by increasing range over time

I am like the Terminator, (except weak and small) and I will never stop.

I think in the USA, we'd agree about the market size, but in the UK it's got to be tiny just due to the size of where we live.

The range increase I feel is less important that the ability to top up quickly for most. But even in the case of our beloved Private Hire going from Glasgow to Wick, and back (540 miles) or about 12 hours, if you had a single stop in Aviemore to let your customer out for a pee and food for 15 minutes and could add enough charge (37.5kWh at an average speed of 150kW) to get to where you are going, and then do the same at the other end before returning doing the same on the way back.

It's actually possible now, but the charging rate isn't quite there and you'd need 30 minutes at the Supercharger in Aviemore, not 15, but then Taxi drivers don't let you eat in cars so you'd be there more than 15 minutes anyhow.

EDIT: Just to note for all private hire people doing 300k in 3 years, at 45 MPG, and £1.25 a litre you'd have spent £38k.

 

[Jez]

I am like the Terminator, (except weak and small) and I will never stop.

haha True, charging time is another way of looking at it, if this can be reduced then the issue is all but gone.

With current charge speeds I guess ive never really considered charging away from home as being for anything other than an emergency, as that is how i imagine my own use case to be (i tend to never stop for breaks even on long journeys, services have never really been something which i have used despite doing 25-30k/year for 15+ years).

For my own usage case i am nervous to go to an EV, although i would really love a Model S (which are becoming mega common in rural Oxon, the maths work against my regular V6 diesel Mercedes if you include fuel burn and VED).

 

[Murf]

I believe that there is a large market of private hire cars which will occasionally, or at least be required to be able to, do high mileage, sometimes.

This is where I think you're going wrong. I'm struggling to find a decent percentile breakdown of average distance travelled per day by car, but this US data suggests that the use case you're describing happens practically never. For EV companies to target this niche requirement is madness. The use case you're describing is just incredibly rare across the general population. And keep in mind, with one stop each way a Tesla will still cover 800 miles comfortably.

I'll definitely be going electric with my next vehicle. Tomorrow I'm driving 220 miles from Newcastle to Reading, returning Sunday. With an electric car I could do that with a stop each way, which I will be doing in my petrol car anyway. The journey will be no different. I only do 8,000 miles a year, and this journey is right at the extreme end of my driving. These trips happen once\twice per year.

 

[Murf]

haha True, charging time is another way of looking at it, if this can be reduced then the issue is all but gone.With current charge speeds I guess ive never really considered charging away from home as being for anything other than an emergency, as that is how i imagine my own use case to be (i tend to never stop for breaks even on long journeys, services have never really been something which i have used despite doing 25-30k/year for 15+ years).

Any journey over 3 hours I will plan a stop. Quick stretch of the legs and a toilet break. About 15 mins. I can't imagine doing 4+ hour journeys without one. If nothing else I'm impressed with your bladder control. You clearly don't drink coffee while driving!