AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Exactly, can't have it both ways, this is an Intel like trick however 'some' people may want to spin it. I got my x470 board on the assumption that it would be sorted to ryzen 4000, after all, AMD led me to believe that to be the case with the AM4 lifecycle crap.

Some may argue I've been naive to think that, but if AMD didn't know at the time fair enough. If they did however, it's clear deception, as they could have just said there and then 1st and second gen won't support 4000 series CPU. The fact they are saying rom size is the limiting factor, it's clearly intentional they don't want to support, not can't. The MSI max board's and most high end x470 have large enough rom capacity as well as capable enough vrms.

They will likely u-turn to partial support, but either way I'd like the option of using ryzen 4000, but likely would stick with the 3900x as it does perfectly fine and will likely age well.

You have a good motherboard which wasn't cheap,and I have a £140+ B450I Strix mini-ITX motherboard(32MB BIOS chip),and AMD mini-ITX motherboards are a bit pricey. It's rather annoying,but I feel sorry the most for the people who bought a B450 after Zen2 was launched,and now are faced with a one generation motherboard. I suppose at least I started with a Ryzen 5 2600 back in 2018,so had at least I have one generation of upgrades,but I was surprised that the B550 was AWOL for so long.

Hopefully they reevaluate this and change their position, they did with the 3000 series not being x300 series compatible. It honestly seems like very flimsy reasoning and makes Intel's claims of pinout changing seem more legit being a supposed hardware change.

Having to buy a new motherboard isnt the end of the world, just I'd prefer to drop in a cpu rather than take out an old motherboard and put in a new one.

It depends if they believe that Zen3 is good enough,that they can just ignore annoyed B450 and X470 owners and forge forward. This is the problem,these companies act nice when it suits there.

 

[r22snapper]

It depends if they believe that Zen3 is good enough,that they can just ignore annoyed B450 and X470 owners and forge forward. This is the problem,these companies act nice when it suits there.

Yep. I don't know why people insist on playing AMD vs Intel or AMD vs Nvidia as good guy vs bad guy, they'll all rip us off when they've got a significantly better product than their competition.

 

[Yaayuh!]

So much for being able to have one board (Say an X370 Crosshair) and keeping it through the entire AM4 cycle. Pretty sure that's what people were touting originally.

Something that I didn’t believe from the get-go and challenged others when they believed it because:
a) That’s not really what AMD said and b) It doesn’t necessarily mean that manufacturers will support the board (look at ASUS X370 support now anyway...).

I wonder how many people will bother with Zen3 with Zen4 being a big change.

 

[RavenXXX2]

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Yep. I don't know why people insist on playing AMD vs Intel or AMD vs Nvidia as good guy vs bad guy, they'll all rip us off when they've got a significantly better product than their competition.

Agreed. But some of us remember AMD back in the day with what they did with socket 754,and their £1000 CPUs,so it's not entirely surprising!

Something that I didn’t believe from the get-go and challenged others when they believed it because:
a) That’s not really what AMD said and b) It doesn’t necessarily mean that manufacturers will support the board (look at ASUS X370 support now anyway...).

I wonder how many people will bother with Zen3 with Zen4 being a big change.

They told a major German system integrator that Zen3 would work in their existing B450 based systems,and then made the announcement yesterday publicly which caught them offguard. So if that is how they treat their own system integrators,I think they don't really care about what we think!

 

[Fire_fly]

There was a segment in the Tech Deals stream regarding an email he had with someone at AMD. The short answer is that they could make it work on some 300 / 400 series boards but are going to drop support to prevent confusion with boards that don't support it causing bad PR.

They discuss it at about 1 hour and again at 1 hour 50 mins.

 

[Gerard]

There was a segment in the Tech Deals stream regarding an email he had with someone at AMD. The short answer is that they could make it work on some 300 / 400 series boards but are going to drop support to prevent confusion with boards that don't support it causing bad PR.

They discuss it at about 1 hour and again at 1 hour 50 mins.

Well they're stupid if that's the case, is it so hard to make a list that it will work for and making it clear that anything outside that list will probably brick the motherboard if they attempt a bios update? These excuses are getting more and more flimsy.

 

[keyser]

I'm on the MSI B450I GAMING PLUS AC ITX motherboard which has the small BIOS problem. tbh I'm less bothered about the Zen 3 upgrade path news, it would be nice but the 3600 is enough at the moment. There's still the 3700X option, new or second hand when Zen 3 comes out, but even that price difference is too steep for 3600 price/performance, so I'll wait it out and see whats going on with Intel 10nm and Zen 4. Gaming at 1440p makes games mostly GPU limited anyway.

oh yeah the other factor is I will never by buying a motherboard as long as it comes with a fan on it.

 

[Joxeon]

There was a segment in the Tech Deals stream regarding an email he had with someone at AMD. The short answer is that they could make it work on some 300 / 400 series boards but are going to drop support to prevent confusion with boards that don't support it causing bad PR.

They will change their minds when they see the poor Zen 3 sales figures, money talks after all.

 

[Participant]

Would newer chipsets that support Zen 3 be backwards compatible with Zen 2? Assume yes?

 

[tamzzy]

Would newer chipsets that support Zen 3 be backwards compatible with Zen 2? Assume yes?

no for b550

source: https://thinkcomputers.org/amd-deta...rss&utm_campaign=amd-details-the-b550-chipset

 

[Cooper]

i'm convinced the Zen 3 BIOS is larger than 8MB.

Well if it wasn't, you can be sure they will be now

Anyway, this is awesome news for someone like me who may be tempted to switch to a 12 or 16 core Zen 3 in early 2021, depending on the actual IPC gains and all core clock speed increase, as it should mean there will be no shortages of stock, seeing as you've just removed a huge swathe of the potential customer base that wanted an easy, no hassle upgrade...

 

[Pannalicour]

Trust me zen 3 (ryzen 4000) will work on older Am4 boards, maybe not official supported.

I am curious why people expecting so much of ryzen 4000? It's just 7nm+. Ryzen 2700x wasn't that much faster than the 1800x now was it?

 

[Robert896r1]

Trust me zen 3 (ryzen 4000) will work on older Am4 boards, maybe not official supported.

I am curious why people expecting so much of ryzen 4000? It's just 7nm+. Ryzen 2700x wasn't that much faster than the 1800x now was it?

there won’t be an Agesa that allows it as that is needed. Might want to learn how these things actually work.

Trusting people without any official confirmation is how this mess is bigger than what it should be.

 

[Doobedoo]

Maybe some of those with the older chips ryzen 1000 and ryzen 2000 can pick up a cheap upgrades from those upgrading from 3000 to 4000.

Let’s put it into perspective Amd have given you a lot more with Ryzen than Intel has ever given you. You can switch to Intel if you want too no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Sorry but it whiffs of a little bit of self entitlement to expect that Amd should continue to give you cheap upgrades year upon year. Let’s just wait and see what happens they may continue the cycle when they switch to ddr5.

 

[Anchundan]

Time to ask a stupid question...

The ROM chip on my board is 8MB,

How do you find the size of the ROM chip? The spec page for your ASRock AB350 Pro 4 says "- 128Mb AMI UEFI Legal BIOS with multilingual GUI support" - I presume this is something different? Even my aging Z97 board says "64MB Flash ROM".

 

[Troezar]

Maybe some of those with the older chips ryzen 1000 and ryzen 2000 can pick up a cheap upgrades from those upgrading from 3000 to 4000.

Let’s put it into perspective Amd have given you a lot more with Ryzen than Intel has ever given you. You can switch to Intel if you want too no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Sorry but it whiffs of a little bit of self entitlement to expect that Amd should continue to give you cheap upgrades year upon year. Let’s just wait and see what happens they may continue the cycle when they switch to ddr5.

Agreed, the hype train has a lot to answer for! I think you may be right with AM5. Certainly exciting times after the 10 years of stagnation when there was no competition.

 

[Joxeon]

there won’t be an Agesa that allows it as that is needed. Might want to learn how these things actually work.

Trusting people without any official confirmation is how this mess is bigger than what it should be.

There wasn't for A320 boards but you can still drop a 3950x into some.

et’s put it into perspective Amd have given you a lot more with Ryzen than Intel has ever given you. You can switch to Intel if you want too no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Sorry but it whiffs of a little bit of self entitlement to expect that Amd should continue to give you cheap upgrades year upon year. Let’s just wait and see what happens they may continue the cycle when they switch to ddr5.

I brought an msi max board which was released after the X570 and has a larger 32mb bios chip as AMD held back B550 which I would have brought had these been available. Now your telling me I have no right to feel a bit miffed if AMD block my board from supporting zen 3 for no technical reason exept saying the bios chip is to small when my board has double the size bios of some x570.

 

[alec]

Would newer chipsets that support Zen 3 be backwards compatible with Zen 2? Assume yes?

Yes for Zen 2 Ryzen 3000 processors.

 

[ljt]

Ah well if they aren't going to work on older boards then I can say thanks AMD for saving me some money. I'm not changing my x370 taichi unless it breaks!

I must say both Nvidia (with their overpricing of the 2000 series GPUs) and now this with AMD I've saved a hell of a lot of money on PC upgrades these past couple of years