MSI have only just launched the B450 pro carbon AC max a month back which im sure they wouldnt have bothered doing if they knew support was being cut.
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AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.
- Thread starter AStaley
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Caporegime
AMD have encouraged the situation by not launching B550 earlier though.
Plenty of people bought B450M boards etc.
Plenty of people bought B450M boards etc.
Caporegime
AMD just didn't bother releasing a B550. That is 100% their fault - they had 12 months to clarify things apart from their vague roadmaps. If there was a B550 last year,this would be less of a problem!
Also their own X570 motherboards have lots of models with 16MB BIOS chips,which is smaller than the MSI MAX range. I wonder if there is something else not quite right here.
I mean they literally told an OEM it would work,and now the OEM heard it through the news media it won't work! Seems rushed.
I think it is worse for the mainstream buyers who went with a new B450 motherboard with a Zen2,so have had little use out of the setup. At least if you had an X370 and bought it at launch you had a few generations...one generation with a B450 is not better than Intel. I don't understand people defending them either TBH....its the same thing people have a go at Intel over!
Caporegime
The ROM chip on my board is 8MB, the BIOS for Zen was 5MB, the BIOS for Zen 2 is 8MB and that's with Zen and Excavator support removed, with the Zen 2 BIOS that's in my board now it 'only' support's Zen 2.
This is why i believe them when they say its about the ROM size, i'm convinced the Zen 3 BIOS is larger than 8MB.
Caporegime
ROM size is a lack of foresight and is completely and utter avoidable though.
In fact, it's edging on incompetence through oversight, but AMD will always find a way to shoot themselves in the foot, and this is just that.
Though I don't particularly care, I'm not surprised by it.
Caporegime
It depends on when we will see Zen3. If its this year,it might be worth waiting,especially if AMD then releases an X670 and says X570 does not work fully or something like that!
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Caporegime
Agreed.... why did they hold that board back?
I think this is the core complaint as last year i would have grabbed a B550 had they been released as X570 was overpriced and i didnt need PCIe gen 4 but instead went for the MSI max refresh as the next best thing but now we're being told support is being cut and to go buy a B550 if we want zen 3.
It was the mobo companies who opted for that size, remember when zen launched they were a bit unsure about it so a lot of them cut corners where they could. After bulldozer and it's irritives its not that surprising.
Caporegime
I agree especially if you promise a better supported socket. These chips are like a dollar,so I doubt most people would care if their motherboard cost another £2 extra!!
It could be marketing,technical,old stock,holding it back for the new Intel CPUs - take your pick. With AMD it's come to the point with me,I have given up trying to understand why they do certain things,as they defy logic at times.
AMD makes the reference specifications for the platform though...so it was upto them to ensure minimal standards IMHO. Even now there are X570 motherboards with 16MB BIOS chips,which are smaller than the 32MB BIOS chips in the MSI B450 Max range.
Still nothing to prevent them making a bios that has zen 3 compatibility for people wanting to upgrade to it from a zen or zen plus. Just remove whatever is needed to fit the new rom file.
Caporegime
That would make it worse.
The situation would be like that from day one and should have been brought up then?
Caporegime
Again i agree, they never have and it seems never will be much good at this sort of thing, its a case of still not being focused enough, they could not foresee the future, but must have had an incline that their BIOS might grow significantly in size and might not fit on boards from yesteryear.
Caporegime
No i think the Zen 3 microcode on its own is more than 8MB, Zen 2 microcode on its own is 8MB and i think that was a squeeze...
Except that there are X570 mobos with smaller bios chips than some B450/X470 mobos but they will be allowed to run Zen3 chips whereas the B450/X470 mobos will be prevented, If there was some valid technical reason why my mobo can't run Zen3 that would be one thing, otherwise this is just Intel levels of b******s.
Suppose it depends on what the rom file needs in it to make the upgrade work, i find it hard to believe they couldn't strip stuff out from zen or zen+ code to make it fit. You're going from one of those to zen 3 so i've no idea what is needed on the rom file in regards to the older cpu's to make it work. As it's programming the board to work with zen 3 i don't see why it would need any of the zen or zen plus information.
Caporegime
16MB, most 300 and i don't know but suspect a lot of 400 series boards are 8MB, that is not big enough.
Hopefully they reevaluate this and change their position, they did with the 3000 series not being x300 series compatible. It honestly seems like very flimsy reasoning and makes Intel's claims of pinout changing seem more legit being a supposed hardware change.
Having to buy a new motherboard isnt the end of the world, just I'd prefer to drop in a cpu rather than take out an old motherboard and put in a new one.
Having to buy a new motherboard isnt the end of the world, just I'd prefer to drop in a cpu rather than take out an old motherboard and put in a new one.
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Exactly, can't have it both ways, this is an Intel like trick however 'some' people may want to spin it. I got my x470 board on the assumption that it would be sorted to ryzen 4000, after all, AMD led me to believe that to be the case with the AM4 lifecycle crap.
Some may argue I've been naive to think that, but if AMD didn't know at the time fair enough. If they did however, it's clear deception, as they could have just said there and then 1st and second gen won't support 4000 series CPU. The fact they are saying rom size is the limiting factor, it's clearly intentional they don't want to support, not can't. The MSI max board's and most high end x470 have large enough rom capacity as well as capable enough vrms.
They will likely u-turn to partial support, but either way I'd like the option of using ryzen 4000, but likely would stick with the 3900x as it does perfectly fine and will likely age well.
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