Caporegime
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Ideally, I’d like to start next season on time, regardless of what that means for the current season.
Football and the Coronavirus
- Thread starter Robbo
- Start date
I'm always willing to debate with people with different views. I know yourself, like Rob, prefer to make statements with no knowledge of what you're talking about though and might be why it appears that I'm telling you that you're wrong. Most of your statements have been factually wrong though. At least you're consistent with your ill informed posts, Rob however changes like the weather. Last week he was looking forward to summer football and today it's off - depending what the days headline is will determine Rob's views. Every cloud has a silver lining though, whether it's the clickbait banter sites that you take your info from or the general hysterical mainstream media that Rob uses, they're still getting their clicks.
Just like Rob, I'm sure you won't reply constructively to this post too.
By ending the 19/20 season and starting the 20/21 season all health risks are eradicated? Until there's a vaccine all the health risks are the same so the question is do we suspend all sport (and all other industries?) until we have the vaccine?
And how do people live when there's no money?
stopping football for the elite for a few more months isn't going to stop the elite living with their 200k a week salaries and the rest
Caporegime
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In Baz’s defence, he’s probably taking more about the general staff than the players and managers.
And this is the problem, you're only looking at 200k per week footballers. What happens to the 100k people who are either employed by PL clubs or by outside companies that rely on the PL? Or the thousands employed or who's employment relies on the EFL? If you read my posts you'll see that I've said that the biggest, richest clubs and players will be the least hurt by football not resuming
And why is football being treated differently to other industries? If football can be made as safe as working in a factory (which is the benchmark I believe we should be using) and you're arguing that football shouldn't go ahead then, as I said mentioned in brackets, I assume you are then closing down all factories and other industries too. More people will die if the economy completely goes to pot than will be lost to corona.
Those athletes and tennis players don't get paid just for competing in a single event
There's a limited number of pro tennis players and those at the bottom will begin to feel the bite if tennis doesn't resume soon, as will Athletes without big commercial deals if and when government funding for them dries up. And the longer the country is shut down, the more cuts will be made in the future to pay for the damage caused - funding for Athletes will very likely be one of the first areas they cut.
Caporegime
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I think this will be the case. I think we will be lucky to even see the start of next season. Especially as now it seems to be breaking out in South America and football being a world sport and the amount of travel squads do.
Factories, NHS are front line and trust me they are not safe places to work. There was a meat packing factory where over 100 staff tested positive. Nothing has been designed with social distancing in mind and to keep up with the throughput needed for the nation would be impossible if they could.
Everything will become clear in the next 2 weeks. IINM the League has until the 25th to inform UEFA if they're going to restart or if they're ending the season early. In these next two weeks the Bundesliga will have completed another week of full contact training and two rounds of fixtures, at least that's the current schedule. If they get through the next two weeks without any signs that the virus has spread because of the resumption (in other words no more positive tests over and above what they'd expect had football not returned) then I think it will give the PL the confidence to press ahead with it's plans. The neutral stadium situation is an issue but I suspect one way or another they'll resolve it if there's a chance that they can resume.
When I mentioned factories, I wasn't referring to those producing essential items. Those, like NHS staff, will be expected to work even when the risks are extremely high. Like you say though, many factories and other places of work won't be 100% safe as in many cases it won't be possible to socially distance and in some cases, people won't bother. And unlike major football leagues, there won't be mass testing to make sure nobody infected is coming to work. The government will know this already but many non essential businesses have remained open this whole time and we know that more and more will open in the next 2 months. It's been a conscious decision to keep these businesses open and to allow more to open despite the risks - they've weighed up the financial damage of closing them down (and the knock-on effects of that) and the health risks of opening them and tried to find the optimum point in which different industries should open.
Nothing will be 100% safe from the virus until there is a vaccine but the world cannot stay shut until we have one. This applies to professional sport just as much as it applies to any other industry.
Welcome to yesterday. The Bundesliga have already announced that this will not effect their restart and as I've explained already, there's a reason why Dresden have had to go into quarantine and other clubs, who have had more positive tests, haven't and why it's not likely to apply here. But again for you....
The Bundesliga as an organisation have decided that one off positive results won't change anything (reportedly the same stance as the PL and La Liga) however in Germany the different states have different laws on this at the moment. Most don't require the whole squad to go into lockdown however in Dresden's case they do. Dresden's first two games will now be rearranged. Other sides, like Cologne with 3 positive tests, carried on training as normal and when tested again they had no new positives which shows that they successfully isolated the 3 infected players/staff and stopped it spreading. If, and it remains an if at the moment, they can continue this trend over the next few weeks then that's a positive sign that football can return without causing an increased rate of infections. We don't have different states here so if the government give clubs the green light and don't require a single positive to put an entire squad into lockdown then that won't be an issue for the PL.
Any response to my last post about the financial effects on over 100k low paid workers and whether you believe all other industries, equally at risk of infection, should be shut down for another 12 too?
It's been discussed a lot in this thread. One or two players unavailable will be treated like any other injury. If large numbers become unavailable, like in the Dresden case, then fixtures will be postponed. Germany starting a month earlier gives them much more time to fit in games that might be postponed however, if the PL does resume, it's less likely that entire squads will be quarantined and games being postponed.
Again though, can you answer my questions on the financial effects of shutting down football for the next 12 months and whether you think all other industries should remain closed and if so how you deal with the financial fall out and if not, why not? It's very easy to make sweeping statements without considering the consequences.
were not talking about other industries im just talking as are other specifically about the football whether team can play on football pitches and whether that can be done safely
and there's no way it can be done safely other countries suggest 1m rule between people we say 2metres between people. impossible playing football and it doesn't matter how much you keep players apart and test them. Other members of there household risk carrying it and passing it on when shopping or exercising or when receiving grocery deliveries etc etc
You cant wrap them in cotton wool 24/7 its already shown that exercise increases the droplets and aerosol
What do you do for a profession baz?
and there's no way it can be done safely other countries suggest 1m rule between people we say 2metres between people. impossible playing football and it doesn't matter how much you keep players apart and test them. Other members of there household risk carrying it and passing it on when shopping or exercising or when receiving grocery deliveries etc etc
You cant wrap them in cotton wool 24/7 its already shown that exercise increases the droplets and aerosol
What do you do for a profession baz?
Soldato
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It's not that difficult to understand how it could be done though. You have a testing station set up outside every training ground, you give each player a set arrival time so that they all arrive at different times, you test them before they enter, then tell them to wait in their car until the test result comes back. If it's negative, you let them come in, if positive then you tell them to go straight home and quarantine for 14 days. Then in terms of matches, you isolate teams in a particular hotel, which is being run by a skeleton staff who have all been tested and have agreed to temporarily live in the hotel so that they don't risk getting the virus.
You test the team bus driver, who takes the tested players straight from the training ground to the hotel they're staying in prior to the match. On the day of the game you'd have a testing station set up at the ground itself, where all the people who are needed on the day of the game (ground staff, media, broadcasting, security, admin, etc) are tested. Again, if anyone tests positive they're sent home. After the match, all the players either spend another night in the hotel or are driven straight back to their training ground in the team bus and then sent home. So long as there are enough spare tests I don't see that many issues with the process itself.
I don't know if we're likely to see the end of this season, but there's no way the PL can call off next season. Not playing football for a significant period of next season will cripple lots of teams, Premier League included.
Test results are going to be within 24 hours you cant get them to wait in a car haha
In the meantime they have been training or played a game.
It doesn't sit right that footballers will have results in 24 hours and nhs and other key workers will wait 48 hours. That causes issues in itself
In the meantime they have been training or played a game.
It doesn't sit right that footballers will have results in 24 hours and nhs and other key workers will wait 48 hours. That causes issues in itself
Why aren't we talking about other industries? I included them in a post that you replied to. If other industries are as unsafe then surely they cannot open either? We cannot just make a sweeping statement that football isn't 100% safe and therefore can't resume but all other unsafe industries can.
You're absolutely right about the risks of players picking up the virus during their daily lives or catching it from a family member, that of course applies to you, me and everybody else too. The physical contact in football also makes the chances of spreading the virus greater than working in an office however testing and strict health and safety protocols can counter this. If you've got a factory of 100 workers and 2 are positive, the chances are nobody will know and those 2 people will likely go about infecting others - the likelihood is most work environments wouldn't be regularly disinfected either, certainly not to the levels that training grounds and stadiums will anyway. Testing will allow PL clubs to identify players that are positive and isolate them from the group much quicker, minimising the risk that they can infect others. If testing and better safety protocols can counter the physical contact so that football is as safe as any other industry then it should be allowed to resume, assuming those others are too. I don't know whether it can, although I'm hopeful and the Bundesliga are trialling it for us.
I work from home, selling products online and wholesaling to stores.
Null and void won't happen. UEFA have told Leagues they will be kicked out of Europe if they do and it's being reported that the FA would veto not just this but any attempts to block relegation and promotions.
Correct. I believe the idea is for players to be tested the day before a game, go into isolation (like they would in a team hotel anyway) and then cleared to play the day of the game. The chances of a player being infected after the test is very small.
edit: I've just read that the plan for testing in regards to training is that a player will be tested on the Monday, go into isolation for a day and if clear will return the next day and be clear to train before being tested again before a game.
Also, the Bundesliga are using the same testing as the PL plans to use and as yet there's been no increase in positive tests following an earlier set of tests. I've mentioned the Cologne example a few times already - they were tested, 24 hours later 3 returned positive, those players were quarantined and the rest of the group continued training and when tested again, there was no new positive tests.
They're using privately sourced testing and labs that the NHS aren't using.
Soldato
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And this is the problem, you're only looking at 200k per week footballers. What happens to the 100k people who are either employed by PL clubs or by outside companies that rely on the PL? Or the thousands employed or who's employment relies on the EFL? If you read my posts you'll see that I've said that the biggest, richest clubs and players will be the least hurt by football not resuming
And why is football being treated differently to other industries? If football can be made as safe as working in a factory (which is the benchmark I believe we should be using) and you're arguing that football shouldn't go ahead then, as I said mentioned in brackets, I assume you are then closing down all factories and other industries too. More people will die if the economy completely goes to pot than will be lost to corona.
Those athletes and tennis players don't get paid just for competing in a single event
There's a limited number of pro tennis players and those at the bottom will begin to feel the bite if tennis doesn't resume soon, as will Athletes without big commercial deals if and when government funding for them dries up. And the longer the country is shut down, the more cuts will be made in the future to pay for the damage caused - funding for Athletes will very likely be one of the first areas they cut.
Factory workers can keep their distance from each other. How are football players meant to do that? Even in training they will get in each others faces when doing defending drills for corners, free kicks. They are breathing at a faster and heavier rate so their breath will travel further and they'll put out more particles into the air. If one player gets infected it could very well spread through not just his team but an opposition team they play. I can see the season starting again but I can also see it grinding to a halt again when players start catching it. They have careers to think about, why put themselves and their futures at risk if they develop lung damage or any of the other damage this can cause.