Fiona Bruce

[Angilion]

Am I right in thinking that Fiona Bruce is a newsreader, i.e. doesn't write what she says on camera?

I do a low skilled job. Many jobs are low skilled. Pretending they're not is silly. There are cases where jobs have a lower status than they deserve, but there are such things as low skilled jobs. Which are often dressed up with a silly title to pretend they're more than they are.

 

[LeMson]

She seems a rite dirty mare on antiques road show

 

[mattyg]

Aren't people kicking off as she said low skilled workers are low skilled. Which is rubbish.
I know some highly skilled people that are doing low skilled work.

 

[Angilion]

Training you would be a waste of time if you had no desire to excel in those fields.

The idea that only certain people could become master masons, for example, doesn't strike me as particularly logical. It's all about putting in the time. Which is obviously not something you'll do if you have no interest.

What particular natural ability do you think is required for carpentry or masonry, that not everybody could possess?

Dis86 effectively already answered your question in the part of their post you didn't quote. They didn't say that a natural ability is required for carpentry or masonry, that not everybody could possess. So your question is inappropriate. They referred explicity to a master mason, not a mason, and a cabinet maker, not a carpenter. For starters, a master mason has to be a civil engineer as well. And a manager. But the key point is the one that was in the bit you didn't quote - degree of skill. I don't think that anyone can attain any degree of skill in anything just by putting in the time. To reach a really high level of skill requires a natural aptitude and a lot of training. I could, for example, learn to play the piano competently if I trained enough. I could probably become quite good at it with many, many hours of training. But I'd be very unlikely to be a concert pianist. I could train as a racing driver and eventually be good enough to put in decent times in a decent car, but I'd be very unlikely to be a competitive F1 driver. It's not only about putting in the time.

 

[Rroff]

I don't think that anyone can attain any degree of skill in anything just by putting in the time. To reach a really high level of skill requires a natural aptitude and a lot of training. I could, for example, learn to play the piano competently if I trained enough. I could probably become quite good at it with many, many hours of training. But I'd be very unlikely to be a concert pianist. I could train as a racing driver and eventually be good enough to put in decent times in a decent car, but I'd be very unlikely to be a competitive F1 driver. It's not only about putting in the time.

Some people seem to naturally have insight in a way others don't at specific things - no amount of training can replicate that outside of the situations you've trained for.

I think your last bit though is something that I've found quite complicated in reality - there seems to be a lot of people who no matter the training and experience it is impossible for them to be capable of the top level of a field if they lack natural ability but there are some who through experience can compete at the top level despite lacking natural ability even though they might not be able to quite hit the level of the top of the top. And people both sides of that divide seem to project that onto everyone else i.e. they don't understand some people aren't capable of ever learning something or vice versa people can't comprehend someone who can pickup a field without a background or natural ability in it.

 

[edscdk]

Need clarifying, low skilled workers or workers in low skilled jobs.. plenty of retards manage to get skilled jobs, plenty of skilled workers in low skilled jobs.. Also there will be jobs people see as low skilled but not everyone could do, and I guess lots of skilled jobs anyone could do with minimal training.. And there will be low skilled workers that just need appropriate but not minimal training to do a skilled job..

 

[meths]

... Any gimp can kick a football. Not everyone, no matter how many hours they put in, is going to be Ronaldo...

Surely it's harder for someone in a gimp suit to be as good at football as Ronaldo though?

They'd have problems with visibility and it'd be harder to breathe. Plus if it was made of plastic instead of leather they'd be at risk of fainting about the 15 minute mark from overheating.

Might be a way to keep sports going through the Covid crisis though, as it must offer some extra protection against transmission.

 

[Murphy]

Surely it's harder for someone in a gimp suit to be as good at football as Ronaldo though?

True, i mean for starters how would you even breath in one of those things, and they must chaff something awful, i wouldn't want to spend 5 seconds in one let alone run around a pitch for 90min in it.

 

[alchal]

Training you would be a waste of time if you had no desire to excel in those fields.

The idea that only certain people could become master masons, for example, doesn't strike me as particularly logical. It's all about putting in the time. Which is obviously not something you'll do if you have no interest.

What particular natural ability do you think is required for carpentry or masonry, that not everybody could possess?

Time will not equal success in a trade.
As a welder for the good part of 20 years I have worked with many willing /enthusiastic people who will never get the hang of it.ever.

It's like saying I could be as good a painter as Michaelangelo (he is the painter right?)if I put the hours in.

I like to make models(airfix/Warhammer type)done it since I was a kid,love it,but just can't get as good as most who do it.

 

[Malevolence]

"She does have a rather nice bottom" - Clarksonious.

 

[Derek W]

A Twitter storm.........so nothing of any importance then

 

[Dis86]

Time will not equal success in a trade.
As a welder for the good part of 20 years I have worked with many willing /enthusiastic people who will never get the hang of it.ever.

It's like saying I could be as good a painter as Michaelangelo (he is the painter right?)if I put the hours in.

I like to make models(airfix/Warhammer type)done it since I was a kid,love it,but just can't get as good as most who do it.

Welding is a brilliant example. I've worked with guys whose quality is so good it's indistinguishable from automated welding and obviously has advantages that machines don't. I've also worked with guys who will never be able to do anything other than stick two bits of steel together on a most basic level.

High skill. Low skill. Is it wrong to say the low skilled gents are low skilled? Nope. Doesn't make them lesser people. Just crap welders!

 

[LeeUK]

If ya not a key worker ya a nobody...

 

[glenimp617]

There is a lot to be said for a low skilled (low stress) job. The fact someone has a job is a good thing in my book.
I treat everyone the same.

and why does anyone bother going on twitter or facebook comments these days? It's just full of idiots.

 

[Dis86]

If ya not a key worker ya a nobody...

I'm highly skilled and a key worker. Do I get cake?

 

[glenimp617]

I'm highly skilled and a key worker. Do I get cake?

No, but maybe we could all chip in and get you a gucci belt

 

[Dis86]

There is a lot to be said for a low skilled (low stress) job. The fact someone has a job is a good thing in my book.
I treat everyone the same.

Which is right. I have the full scale of people working for me and everyone of them is just as important.
I have cleaners, ground workers, electricians, carpenters, mechanical fitters, drivers and various ranks of boatmen. All have different skill levels, even within their jobs. All are as important to me.

 

[Derek W]

and why does anyone bother going on twitter or facebook comments these days? It's just full of idiots.

Think you just answered your own question there. Idiotic people posting on platforms full of idiots

 

[Dis86]

No, but maybe we could all chip in and get you a gucci belt

Lol. Gucci man purses for me only I'm afraid.

 

[FoxEye]

Dis86 effectively already answered your question in the part of their post you didn't quote. They didn't say that a natural ability is required for carpentry or masonry, that not everybody could possess. So your question is inappropriate. They referred explicity to a master mason, not a mason, and a cabinet maker, not a carpenter. For starters, a master mason has to be a civil engineer as well. And a manager. But the key point is the one that was in the bit you didn't quote - degree of skill. I don't think that anyone can attain any degree of skill in anything just by putting in the time. To reach a really high level of skill requires a natural aptitude and a lot of training. I could, for example, learn to play the piano competently if I trained enough. I could probably become quite good at it with many, many hours of training. But I'd be very unlikely to be a concert pianist. I could train as a racing driver and eventually be good enough to put in decent times in a decent car, but I'd be very unlikely to be a competitive F1 driver. It's not only about putting in the time.

A lot depends on what age you start.

Remember in the last century or so, a carpenter's son would be learning carpentry from the time they could hold a chisel

And a concert pianist probably started playing the piano at age 4 or 5. Pushed all the way by their parents. And the best concert pianists not only started at age 4, but they had the best music tutors money could buy.

I don't believe that mastery of a skill depends on genetics or aptitude at all. Or any other factor beyond our control.

Because to believe that is to (almost) say that you believe in fate. That not everybody can be x,y,z no matter how hard they try or how much time they put in. For a lot of professions I just don't believe this is true at all.