Boris Johnson is considering a trade in price of £6K for an EV

Soldato
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Maybe I wasn't hinting well enough. There are 2 charging points (both at the same car park) almost on my way to work, but they are 7.2kw charging points. It would take far, far too long to get any meaningful charge. It just isn't viable until I can get a full battery almost as quickly as a full tank.



A lot of people have a driveway but most people don't. Electric is the way forward, eventually we will all be electric. But it's a very long way off being good enough for the masses.

Not sure we will. Electric is a patch up until something better comes along. They are not the solution. It helps local air pollution but EVs have a huge carbon footprint from the manufacturing.
 
Soldato
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? the ft comment - hadn't realised there was another plan, in addition to the well known post bank crash one

The German scheme covers non-ice too 17%->14%(was it) vat reduction.


avg sales price
assume we are just talking about below https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/pub...n-38-per-cent-past-decade-says-cap-hpi/146938
but, there doesn't seem to be any distribution plots for 2019 prices payed for new cars, like, what's the median ?

With 6K, the impact on 2nd hand value of ev's has got to be considered too, ev market is already special with the discrete jumps in battery capacity, which are devaluing older models, despite market demand, and this/6K, compounds that, you effectively take money from pockets of owners, to fund it.


HE AVERAGE price of a new car has increased by 38 per cent over the course of the past decade, according to Cap HPI.

Analysis conducted by the automotive data company shows that the average amount of money customers pay for a new car rose from £24,383 in February 2008 to £33,559 in February 2018.

In the past 10 years, there has been a massive leap forward in the technology that is fitted to cars, with features such as satellite navigation, self-parking, autonomous emergency braking and adaptive cruise control now commonplace among the latest models.
 
Soldato
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I am wondering how much additional underground infrastructure (Cabling, local substations, transformers and so on) are going to be required to enable every house in a street to be able to sustain multi-Kw loads simultaneously??

If everyone who comes home at at 5pm, plugs their car in, puts the kettle on and flicks the oven on then yes it will cause issues but that’s not what happens in reality.

It’s not as much of an issue as you think, not every car needs to be charge every day from empty to full, people typically drive less than 30 miles a day. This can be recouped in just over an hour on a charger. Most cars will not be plugged in daily, most don’t already. Most cars are charged overnight when demand is lowest and energy is cheapest.

Chargers installed using the government grant are ‘smart’, in the future chargers installed can be temporarily throttled back or even turned off when there are spikes in demand. Vehicle to grid is also being developed and will also add huge benefits by allowing you to essentially avoid peak electricity costs and even sell back to the grid for profit.

Not sure we will. Electric is a patch up until something better comes along. They are not the solution. It helps local air pollution but EVs have a huge carbon footprint from the manufacturing.

Yet they still have lower lifetime C02 than an ICE by a considerable margin while not fouling the local air you breathe and you know that.

What do you propose that’s going to come along and take their place? Cars powered by magic fairy dust? :rolleyes:

Most manufacturers have given up on hydrogen fuel cells for cars. They have been ‘just a few years away’ for a decade and are just not practical. They are far more difficult and expensive to make than an BEV so they don’t win the economic argument which is all that matters at the end of the day. The fuel also either comes from fossil fuels or uses a huge amount of electricity to produce which is completely inefficient and incredibly expensive.

For heavy applications or static generation, yes I can see a good case for hydrogen but it’s not going to beat a battery for a car any time soon.
 
Soldato
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So you all of a sudden are going to buy a new car since they are going to stop depreciating "the instant you roll it off the forecourt" that is not going to change really is it, so that can't be what has stopped you in the past really.
It can be and is one of the reasons. Same for why I'd never bought a brand new GPU, until the day I did. Same for why I'd never gone custom loop cooling, or PWM control, until the day I did.
But things can change, you know, and for various reasons... or are you seriously insisting that people must always remain in their little behavioural boxes?

Care to give a reason why all of a sudden you'd buy a new car, or just make up random reasons then backtrack?
As with the above examples, when they start offering something that mitigates the depreciation factor.

My statistics? They are Gov.uk sourced and from motoring data analytics firms who gather data for the Gov.uk and motoring manufacturers.
As are the sources I cited, yet not one of them concurs with another. However, since you're trying to use them to prove your point (and failing), yes your statistics.

Believe whatever you want, and deny what ever you want, does it annoy you that the average new car is ~£34k or something? What does it matter if you buy them second hand once they have dropped like stones?
It doesn't matter to me at all. That's not the point I was challenging.

Wow, you sound like a proper nice person with all those stared out swearies, lucky for me I'm not a EV owner then, or a vegan, or maybe I dunno anything you disagree with.
I disagree with your assertions, and the sanctimonious assumptive attitude you bring with them. I don't give a **** what car you own (or whether you 'technically' rent it), it's your erroneous claim regarding other people.

I suggest you change your tone, you sound like a bitter old man.
Or else what?
It doesn't matter how I sound to you, you're still wrong in your assertions.
 
Soldato
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OK, it's in the ballpark then. Likely to have dropped a little - a lot of new town centre developments have converted old office buildings to residential apartments in the last 10 years. They want people to use public transport so *IF* there's parking then there's less than the number of units and you'd have difficulty fitting a charging point.
 
Soldato
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I get your point but people living in city centres without parking are less likely to own a car. You don’t buy a home that doesn’t have parking if you need a car.

You ignore all the low density housing estates which have off street parking cropping up everywhere in the last decade too.

Also building a few hundred thousand new houses per year isn’t going to have a material impact on the % split across tens of millions of homes.
 
Soldato
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I get your point but people living in city centres without parking are less likely to own a car. You don’t buy a home that doesn’t have parking if you need a car.

Covered in the "they want people to use public transport" comment.

You ignore all the low density housing estates which have off street parking cropping up everywhere in the last decade too.

Depends on where you live. Town Centre re-developments up this next of the woods only. If you don't have off-road parking then it's permit and fight for a spot on the street. Green belt developments are off limits.

Also building a few hundred thousand new houses per year isn’t going to have a material impact on the % split across tens of millions of homes.

Covered in the "it's in the ballpark then" comment.
 
Soldato
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I disagree with your assertions, and the sanctimonious assumptive attitude you bring with them. I don't give a **** what car you own (or whether you 'technically' rent it), it's your erroneous claim regarding other people.

You are hilarious.

Go back to your cave, and come out when you've evolved into a human.
 
Soldato
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A car is sat around doing nothing 90% of the time. For me there are two options:

a) Wherever the car is parked it needs to be charged
b) Car ownership needs to change

for
a) That means every single parking space, every curb, every bay, has to be electrified. Tricky.
b) Fuddy duddies of old-think will always want their 'own personal shiny tin box' - changing that mentality is tricky.
 
Soldato
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avg sales price assume we are just talking about below https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/pub...n-38-per-cent-past-decade-says-cap-hpi/146938
but, there doesn't seem to be any distribution plots for 2019 prices payed for new cars, like, what's the median ?

Would love to know that too, but the average of almost £34k in 2018, ties in with the 60% price rise in 'low' end cars like the Fiesta going from £9,995 in 2013 to £15,995 in 2019/20. The average in 2012 was something like ~£24k, so a rise of ~41% across all cars.

People need to face fact new cars aren't 'cheap' due to PCP and other financing methods and cheap debt being easily available to a great deal of people prices have risen. The fact that the premium brand market is just so big now speaks volumes for how far people are willing to push themselves, or only consider a monthly outgoing, and this has caused the increase in price as well. It also shows why a car drops so much after only a few years, losing 50%+ in a lot of cases. Seems it doesn't stop people from buying though, post Covid will be very different I think.

Adding a £6k incentive to a new buyer is a huge deal, tie that in to a cheaper monthly payment on a PCP and you quickly have people interested. It takes a 36 month PCP on a £27k vehicle over 36 months (4% APR) with £3.5K deposit down to only ~£200 from £380 with out that £6k coming from the traded in banger to get the scrappage, assuming a £12k GFV.
Those figures make it cheaper than an ICE, and that isn't including the fuel savings over 3 years, which could be £1500-3000 or more in total.
 
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Would love to know that too, but the average of almost £34k in 2018, ties in with the 60% price rise in 'low' end cars like the Fiesta going from £9,995 in 2013 to £15,995 in 2019/20. The average in 2012 was something like ~£24k, so a rise of ~41% across all cars.

People need to face fact new cars aren't 'cheap' due to PCP and other financing methods and cheap debt being easily available to a great deal of people prices have risen. The fact that the premium brand market is just so big now speaks volumes for how far people are willing to push themselves, or only consider a monthly outgoing, and this has caused the increase in price as well. It also shows why a car drops so much after only a few years, losing 50%+ in a lot of cases. Seems it doesn't stop people from buying though, post Covid will be very different I think.

Adding a £6k incentive to a new buyer is a huge deal, tie that in to a cheaper monthly payment on a PCP and you quickly have people interested. It takes a 36 month PCP on a £27k vehicle over 36 months (4% APR) with £3.5K deposit down to only ~£200 from £380 with out that £6k coming from the traded in banger to get the scrappage, assuming a £12k GFV.
Those figures make it cheaper than an ICE, and that isn't including the fuel savings over 3 years, which could be £1500-3000 or more in total.


This in the car market on the leasing PCP deals people are interested in low deposits and then just the monthly figure, it is how the modern new car buyer seems to buy. Even some of the Super car brands advertise in similar ways too as I've seen Aston offering the new Vantage at like £999 per month I think it was, yes the deposit was quite hefty but it may pull some people in who are happy to hand a car back three years later and essentially not own anything and just paid to rent a flash car.

If the new government deal comes to fruition of £6000 discount on an EV it will mean low monthly's on a brand new car with practically no running cost with a monthly easily affordable to many and as such I can see it proving quite popular.

I am still an old school buyer, I buy to own vehicle outright by either paying cash or getting a very good finance deal which at the end leaves me as the outright owner and as such I can keep or sell, my decision. But at the same time I can also see the appeal and why so many people do essentially rent a brand new car for a monthly figure with a low deposit and then just hand it back a few years later and get the latest model etc.
 
Soldato
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This in the car market on the leasing PCP deals people are interested in low deposits and then just the monthly figure, it is how the modern new car buyer seems to buy. Even some of the Super car brands advertise in similar ways too as I've seen Aston offering the new Vantage at like £999 per month I think it was, yes the deposit was quite hefty but it may pull some people in who are happy to hand a car back three years later and essentially not own anything and just paid to rent a flash car.

If the new government deal comes to fruition of £6000 discount on an EV it will mean low monthly's on a brand new car with practically no running cost with a monthly easily affordable to many and as such I can see it proving quite popular.

I am still an old school buyer, I buy to own vehicle outright by either paying cash or getting a very good finance deal which at the end leaves me as the outright owner and as such I can keep or sell, my decision. But at the same time I can also see the appeal and why so many people do essentially rent a brand new car for a monthly figure with a low deposit and then just hand it back a few years later and get the latest model etc.

You have to be look at the cost of fuel though. An average car doing average mileage will cost around £120 a month in fuel. In electric it will be £30 so theres another saving for people.
 
Soldato
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A car is sat around doing nothing 90% of the time. For me there are two options:

a) Wherever the car is parked it needs to be charged
b) Car ownership needs to change

for
a) That means every single parking space, every curb, every bay, has to be electrified. Tricky.
b) Fuddy duddies of old-think will always want their 'own personal shiny tin box' - changing that mentality is tricky.

Living in Germany I had access to a huge fleet of BMW, Mini, Mercedes and Smart cars, plus the 'proper' electric scooters, and the little Lime ones. Works brilliantly in cities. Super cheap. I really dislike having two cars sat outside the house here back in the UK but the infrastructure just doesn't exist to make it, nor the will or competence in government.

Make every public parking space electrified would be a good start...but do any genuinely public space still exist? AFAIK they've all been privatised by the back door and managed by profit-making businesses.
 
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