Trading the stockmarket (NO Referrals)

Fusion · 3 Jul 2020 at 18:36

Tesla are way above the theoretical value they "should" be, but then so are lots of tech companies. If you're an old fashioned value investor (nothing wrong with that), it's not for you.

Doesn't mean you can't make money if you can handle the risk.

Simon · 3 Jul 2020 at 18:54

413x said:
The other car companies have been caught napping and will all fall to tesla at this rate.
They are dinosaurs.

Deluded. They literally make money from making electric cars and selling the carbon credits to cover costs. They are unprofitable without legislation

Fusion · 3 Jul 2020 at 19:01

But there is legislation. You're an oil guy @Simon, I'm sure you know how much fossil fuel industries receive in subsidy.

413x · 3 Jul 2020 at 19:58

Simon said:
Deluded. They literally make money from making electric cars and selling the carbon credits to cover costs. They are unprofitable without legislation

Its the future. Its only going to get more profitable

englishpremier · 3 Jul 2020 at 22:02

Simon said:
Toyota make 2.4m cars !

Toyota make a fair few more than that. 8.8-10m. VW sell 4.6m to Europe alone. When EVs reach prime time. I certainly do expect Tesla to be up there in the top 5 maybe. I just can't see them leading the bunch in terms of sales or margin.

413x said:
Just have to look at all the exciting American companies. Then look back to Europe and there's nothing. Nothing exciting at all

Not just that. Many of Europe's most interesting companies either sell out ARM, Skype etc.. or list in the US, e.g. Spotify.

Skeptic · 3 Jul 2020 at 22:45

Elon is a hero, I like him. He's also a nerd done well and lacks humility. Why is he trying to assert superior intellectual knowledge on things like the coronavirus where he has no expertise? Arguing with people for whom pandemics are literally their life's work...

You might argue that he has done well by not "staying in his lane", but recall Icarus. He might be the saviour, but he might also blow up, taking it all with him.

Skeptic · 3 Jul 2020 at 22:48

Simon said:
Deluded. They literally make money from making electric cars and selling the carbon credits to cover costs. They are unprofitable without legislation

Strongly agree. I'm not scared of risky investment, but the thought that tsla is going to steam roll the behemoths of the industry is wishful thinking. Tsla is a disruptive influence - good as a catalyst - but whether it stays the course is a coin toss.

Simon · 4 Jul 2020 at 08:08

Sorry. My numbers were Q1 not annual. 103k vs 2.4m

DireEmblem · 5 Jul 2020 at 18:35

Evening all,

Just incase you've not spotted - NatWest/RBS are offering new investors £50 cash back, for depositing £100 and setting up regular deposits each month of at least £50 until 31 October. I think this is a bargain.

Their most adventurous fund has a 0.95% max charge plus transaction costs, so in reality I think if you have some spare change, or already invest in global funds, this cant be beaten over the short term. Once the cash back has been paid, redeem and transfer to back to your usual range of funds.

DarrenM343 · 6 Jul 2020 at 15:08

Journey said:
More good news then today. It is going to be an interesting decade, watching big oil divest, and legacy auto makers panicking to make themselves appear relevant again. It's going to be like Nokia vs. real smart phones all over again. Slow to start, and then bam gone like they never existed.

And another 7%+ today :eek:

. Long may it last although it probably won't

. Feels like fomo, looks like fomo but then again the whole market seems a bit irrational.
Will be interesting to see how other manufacturers do, moving forward. Tesla definitely got a head start and there's an Apple like mindshare going on too.

Efour · 6 Jul 2020 at 15:13

Jesus Christ maybe i should have just cashed everything i had and bought Tesla stock

Im happy as Larry making what i am but i could be getting triple... And have heart failure for free!
Ive already paid half my mortgage thanks to Covid19 lol
What a bloody weird time to be alive!

Fusion · 6 Jul 2020 at 15:16

Sometimes it sucks being rational

413x · 6 Jul 2020 at 15:18

I do think after all this pans out there will be car manufacturers that just go under. Maybe most of them.
I mean it could actually happen

Surveyor · 6 Jul 2020 at 15:20

413x said:
I do think after all this pans out there will be car manufacturers that just go under. Maybe most of them.
I mean it could actually happen

Anything could happen but why do you think it will happen?

Journey · 6 Jul 2020 at 15:20

DarrenM343 said:
And another 7%+ today . Long may it last although it probably won't . Feels like fomo, looks like fomo but then again the whole market seems a bit irrational.
Will be interesting to see how other manufacturers do, moving forward. Tesla definitely got a head start and there's an Apple like mindshare going on too.

The pretty much guaranteed inclusion to the S&P 500 means lots of extra shares having to be picked up by the trackers/funds which is/will push the price up. I expect a big fall back sooner or later.

413x · 6 Jul 2020 at 15:22

Surveyor said:
Anything could happen but why do you think it will happen?

It took tesla a long time to get to where it is now.
And a lot of cash burning. I can't see the traditional manufacturers catching up.

Batteries are the future, and can't see anyone but tesla making inroads like they are.

The other manufacturers don't have the resources to put this much into it

Fusion · 6 Jul 2020 at 15:28

413x said:
The other manufacturers don't have the resources to put this much into it

Don’t underestimate the size and resources of the big players. The VAG group are putting something like €30bn into electric vehicle development. The first VW ID3 UK deliveries will be in September, and I can see it doing well.

Basher · 6 Jul 2020 at 15:51

413x said:
It took tesla a long time to get to where it is now.
And a lot of cash burning. I can't see the traditional manufacturers catching up.

Batteries are the future, and can't see anyone but tesla making inroads like they are.

The other manufacturers don't have the resources to put this much into it

Are the traditional manufacturers that far behind? Take the Model X vs I Pace for examples:

234 miles vs 238 miles range
4.5 vs 4.9 secs to 60
both about $80k

What makes you think other manufacturers don't have the resources to put into this? Why not just let Tesla be the one that helps establish the market then reap the rewards once the mass-market are wanting EVs?

booyaka · 6 Jul 2020 at 15:55

Fusion said:
Don’t underestimate the size and resources of the big players. The VAG group are putting something like €30bn into electric vehicle development. The first VW ID3 UK deliveries will be in September, and I can see it doing well.

I know it's slighty off the topic of the thread but at £27k base price and winter range of 120 miles - I'm not sure the ID3 will do that well.

Martynt74 · 6 Jul 2020 at 16:18

Fusion said:
Don’t underestimate the size and resources of the big players. The VAG group are putting something like €30bn into electric vehicle development. The first VW ID3 UK deliveries will be in September, and I can see it doing well.

Plus they probably don't need to spend the levels Tesla had. They already have the plants to build the cars and in house knowledge of chassis etc.

They presumably also don't have the insane level of R&D as they can "copy" Tesla and catch up a lot faster when they actually want to.