Is 8k for home cinema absolutely pointless?

[Arcane]

More interested in higher refresh than more pixels I can't see.

 

[Kamakazie!]

I'd say it'll be pointless for most people but it seems like an easier way for companies to sell new TVs than it is for them to improve image quality.
Every set is a compromise whether it be burn in & brightness issues with OLED or black & motion issues with LCD.

 

[Kelt]

LOL, I can picture what most of their content is. As per normal, technology being driven by....

Tentacle porn, you can say it.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Tentacle porn, you can say it.

I wouldn't want to comment...

 

[Kelt]

I wouldn't want to comment...

Squids in I'm right.

 

[robfosters]

I know it’s not really 8K’s fault, but one thing that’s really annoying me is the way Samsung are trying to push it so hard, that they’re gimping their 4K TV’s. This years range is not as good as last years, and also, many people say that the year before that was even better.

It’s totally conning the paying public.

 

[Radox-0]

I know it’s not really 8K’s fault, but one thing that’s really annoying me is the way Samsung are trying to push it so hard, that they’re gimping their 4K TV’s. This years range is not as good as last years, and also, many people say that the year before that was even better.

It’s totally conning the paying public.

Yup have a 2018 model Q9FN. Exceptional TV and like it as much as my C9 OLED. Why I can't wait to see Micro-LED which combine best of both worlds. With 2019 panel's, Samsung changed philosophy, they applied a wide-angle filter. Problem was, this actually meant contrast ratio, colour gamete and black levels took a step back vs 2018 models which is why some prefer the 2018 models. Had to replace my one as friend let loose with Wii remote accidentally. Under cover was offered Q90R but stuck with FN for this reason. Can see however the 90T took a slight step back, not as aggressive on the wide angle filter as the 90R, but still not quiet at 9FN levels. Shame as if Samsung could combine the Q9FN colour depth, ratio and black levels with VRR, HDMI 2.1, eARC, G-Sync etc, would have likely picked that up over my LG C9 OLED tbh.

 

[aoaaron]

Yup have a 2018 model Q9FN. Exceptional TV and like it as much as my C9 OLED. Why I can't wait to see Micro-LED which combine best of both worlds. With 2019 panel's, Samsung changed philosophy, they applied a wide-angle filter. Problem was, this actually meant contrast ratio, colour gamete and black levels took a step back vs 2018 models which is why some prefer the 2018 models. Had to replace my one as friend let loose with Wii remote accidentally. Under cover was offered Q90R but stuck with FN for this reason. Can see however the 90T took a slight step back, not as aggressive on the wide angle filter as the 90R, but still not quiet at 9FN levels. Shame as if Samsung could combine the Q9FN colour depth, ratio and black levels with VRR, HDMI 2.1, eARC, G-Sync etc, would have likely picked that up over my LG C9 OLED tbh.

Very true.

If they'd not tried to chase the wide angles of an OLED, I think they could have potentially have got VERY close to OLED's PQ but they took a really strange direction.

 

[5punk3monk3y]

Very true.

If they'd not tried to chase the wide angles of an OLED, I think they could have potentially have got VERY close to OLED's PQ but they took a really strange direction.

Think of it from this point of view, in 2017-2018 Joe public walks in to RS / Curry's / wherever that sells TVs with a pocket full of cash walks up to the aisle with the TVs and their all at an angle... which ones stand out, the washed out image on the flagship Samsung's or the watch from any angle Oleds?

 

[Radox-0]

Think of it from this point of view, in 2017-2018 Joe public walks in to RS / Curry's / wherever that sells TVs with a pocket full of cash walks up to the aisle with the TVs and their all at an angle... which ones stand out, the washed out image on the flagship Samsung's or the watch from any angle Oleds?

The former. Most people will stand in front of the TV and the Samsung image will pop more. Don't know many that will look at it from side on and even then, my Q9FN does not look bad until your really off angle so unlikely to notice the washed off effect IMO. Was asked by my parents recently who came around why I picked up my OLED when the picture they thought was more striking on the QLED. They don't care about the nitty gritty bits like VRR, G-Sync, HDMI, absolute blacks etc.

If anything I suspect Samsung over compensated in 2019 which is why with 2020 models they relaxed the Wide viewing angle abit to bring back some of the contrast on the 2020 model if HDTV test is to be believed: https://youtu.be/2RbRUcRc0is?t=154 so while off angle performance on 2018 models played a role, evidently they thought it was worth backtracking on.

 

[Rofflay]

You guys forgot that 8k will have UI upsampling or upscaling. So considering 6k is about the sweet spot for 35mm film detail why not push to 8k? I think in 5yrs we will use 8k and be glad we got it. 6k true detail plus upscaling to 8k and a new Atmos remix will be par for the course in 2024 alongside MLED coming in.


Really thats when i think people should invest but some movies that get 4k now will probably never see 8k and would not benefit like Groundhog day. But i believe others would.

 

[5punk3monk3y]

The former. Most people will stand in front of the TV and the Samsung image will pop more. Don't know many that will look at it from side on and even then, my Q9FN does not look bad until your really off angle so unlikely to notice the washed off effect IMO. Was asked by my parents recently who came around why I picked up my OLED when the picture they thought was more striking on the QLED. They don't care about the nitty gritty bits like VRR, G-Sync, HDMI, absolute blacks etc.

If anything I suspect Samsung over compensated in 2019 which is why with 2020 models they relaxed the Wide viewing angle abit to bring back some of the contrast on the 2020 model if HDTV test is to be believed: https://youtu.be/2RbRUcRc0is?t=154 so while off angle performance on 2018 models played a role, evidently they thought it was worth backtracking on.

I understand where your coming from but I'm talking about average Joe exactly like the description you made about not caring about vrr etc. Walk in to Curry's and look down the aisle and you will see the Oleds pop before the LCD TVs or even worse if the image is black again the Oleds contrast wins. I'm yet to see a retailer set up that has every screen front and center. 90% of the screens are approached side on at a harsh angle before joe gets it in the living room.

Samsung have compromised the image quality for off centre viewing on the newer models which I dare say the vast majority on this forum would never watch at. This goes hand in hand with the 10 year screen burn warranty they offer.

 

[Radox-0]

I understand where your coming from but I'm talking about average Joe exactly like the description you made about not caring about vrr etc. Walk in to Curry's and look down the aisle and you will see the Oleds pop before the LCD TVs or even worse if the image is black again the Oleds contrast wins. I'm yet to see a retailer set up that has every screen front and center. 90% of the screens are approached side on at a harsh angle before joe gets it in the living room.

Samsung have compromised the image quality for off centre viewing on the newer models which I dare say the vast majority on this forum would never watch at. This goes hand in hand with the 10 year screen burn warranty they offer.

I am saying the opposite my parents are average Joes as are most my friends and family. They walked into my room once I put the OLED up and could not see the hype and thought I took a step back compare to my QLED. They do not notice details like absolute blacks let alone know of VRR, HDMI 2.1 etc. Back in 2018 more so, people would see the striking image much more on the Samsung stuff then they would OLED. Pair to that the over saturated colour that Samsung tend to put on there picture more so on store mode paired with generally brighter screen in a bright store and it will stand out more. Too many family members worked in the electronic retailers (in fact so did I part time) and often trying to impress the benefits of OLED to average Joe is not easy when the TV next to it is cranked to the nth degree with colour volume and brightness. You will see most people who buy a TV do not stand off axis, generally even if the TV's are placed at odd angles, they will still plant themselves directly in front of the TV. We use to have this issue when I was in the industry blocking certain path ways up which was always havoc on weekends hah.

Anyways Evidently Samsung feel they took the filter themselves too far in terms of compromises as they have now paired it back and yet they will still be displayed in stores. I think mostly it was something to help differentiate themselves from 2018 models, add a marketing tickbox but also hoping to hide the fact they went back in some area's also. With that said, what is changing is people who buy higher end TV's are usually making more informed choices and with the burn in Aspect somewhat diminishing there are more people taking it up. Recall when speaking to the family in retail when picking my Q9FN, around 2-3 high end LED's went out compared to OLED's, expect at the higher end, this has changed very much since then.

 

[3t3P]

I say at ad nauseum I can see much more detail with my projector at 113' diagonal 1080p than I bet most can on a '4k' TV viewed at the natural distance of 10 ft or so.

Pixels from my pj are just over 1mm on a side. Hold a ruler up from 11 ft away (my viewing distance) there's no way in hell you can resolve the mm markings.

I'd take 4k and am waiting to see if Sony update their PJ lineup later this year as that's about due with prior models launching in 2018. I think it will look better with the right source but also am aware that what makes an image good is not down to resolution usually.

 

[aoaaron]

I am saying the opposite my parents are average Joes as are most my friends and family. They walked into my room once I put the OLED up and could not see the hype and thought I took a step back compare to my QLED. They do not notice details like absolute blacks let alone know of VRR, HDMI 2.1 etc. Back in 2018 more so, people would see the striking image much more on the Samsung stuff then they would OLED. Pair to that the over saturated colour that Samsung tend to put on there picture more so on store mode paired with generally brighter screen in a bright store and it will stand out more. Too many family members worked in the electronic retailers (in fact so did I part time) and often trying to impress the benefits of OLED to average Joe is not easy when the TV next to it is cranked to the nth degree with colour volume and brightness. You will see most people who buy a TV do not stand off axis, generally even if the TV's are placed at odd angles, they will still plant themselves directly in front of the TV. We use to have this issue when I was in the industry blocking certain path ways up which was always havoc on weekends hah.

Anyways Evidently Samsung feel they took the filter themselves too far in terms of compromises as they have now paired it back and yet they will still be displayed in stores. I think mostly it was something to help differentiate themselves from 2018 models, add a marketing tickbox but also hoping to hide the fact they went back in some area's also. With that said, what is changing is people who buy higher end TV's are usually making more informed choices and with the burn in Aspect somewhat diminishing there are more people taking it up. Recall when speaking to the family in retail when picking my Q9FN, around 2-3 high end LED's went out compared to OLED's, expect at the higher end, this has changed very much since then.

Thats strange. Everyone one thats seen my parents OLED is blown away, namely due to the obscene viewing angles combined with HDR brightness which people aren't used to.

Samsung's TVs might be good at initially grabbing the untrained eye but in real world circumstances, i feel OLED just pulls through and destroys.

 

[aoaaron]

Think of it from this point of view, in 2017-2018 Joe public walks in to RS / Curry's / wherever that sells TVs with a pocket full of cash walks up to the aisle with the TVs and their all at an angle... which ones stand out, the washed out image on the flagship Samsung's or the watch from any angle Oleds?

I agree. It was all for marketing, not PQ. Improved viewing angles to grab people's attention in the stores.

They are a shameless company (Samsung) altho I hold high hopes when they dip into OLED market.

 

[Radox-0]

Thats strange. Everyone one thats seen my parents OLED is blown away, namely due to the obscene viewing angles combined with HDR brightness which people aren't used to.

Samsung's TVs might be good at initially grabbing the untrained eye but in real world circumstances, i feel OLED just pulls through and destroys.

Fortunately I have the luxury of having both the QLED and OLED and had them in the same spot in my room one after the other so its not strange. If I look at my OLED in isolation, then sure its stunning. However you mention HDR brightness and I assure you some of the QLED's reach massive light output and colour volume levels vs OLED its ridiculous. Is this good in all content, no not really, more so as its at the expense of accuracy.

I don't know what counts as a trained eye. I suppose I do not have one as there are aspects of my QLED I also enjoy. *shrug* maby I am a weirdo who has a rubbish untrained eye I suppose along with everyone else I know who has come to my place.

 

[Troezar]

Fortunately I have the luxury of having both the QLED and OLED and had them in the same spot in my room one after the other so its not strange. If I look at my OLED in isolation, then sure its stunning. However you mention HDR brightness and I assure you some of the QLED's reach massive light output and colour volume levels vs OLED its ridiculous. Is this good in all content, no not really, more so as its at the expense of accuracy.

I don't know what counts as a trained eye. I suppose I do not have one as there are aspects of my QLED I also enjoy. *shrug* maby I am a weirdo who has a rubbish untrained eye I suppose along with everyone else I know who has come to my place.

Interesting alternative viewpoint. I had discounted everything outside of OLED but as you say brightness is a major factor with HDR. I can probably hold on a few more years, by then, hopefully, the choice will be clearer.

 

[VincentHanna]

In a bright room, QLED will look punchier IMO.

But generally everything else is better on OLED.

 

[5punk3monk3y]

Fortunately I have the luxury of having both the QLED and OLED and had them in the same spot in my room one after the other so its not strange. If I look at my OLED in isolation, then sure its stunning. However you mention HDR brightness and I assure you some of the QLED's reach massive light output and colour volume levels vs OLED its ridiculous. Is this good in all content, no not really, more so as its at the expense of accuracy.

I don't know what counts as a trained eye. I suppose I do not have one as there are aspects of my QLED I also enjoy. *shrug* maby I am a weirdo who has a rubbish untrained eye I suppose along with everyone else I know who has come to my place.

I have the luxury of having an XF90 FALD here and an Oled B7 for normal SDR viewing the XF90 is great but HDR content the Oled blows it out the water every time.