AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

Devrij · 6 Aug 2020 at 17:51

LePhuronn said:
Why is it a stretch? The 5700 XT only has 40 CUs and is a 225W card. If AMD are successful in bringing 50% performance per watt uplift with RDNA 2 then 40 of the new CUs at the same power will beat the 2080 Ti by 10%. Repeat: that's only 40 CUs. Now double up to 80 CUs as some of the rumours say and you easily hit that 40-50% more than the 2080 Ti.

Look at the XSX. It's 52 CUs? The entire system uses about 250W? And yet it's looking like it can match the 2080 Super? So what happens when you take those 52 CUs and drop it into a PC graphics card, and those same 250W only need to power the GPU, not an entire console?

So it's not a stretch at all, in fact I'd say it's a requirement and if AMD don't get there then they've disappointed us again. This is not hype train, this is real expectation based on what we've seen RDNA 1 can do, what (little) we've seen RDNA 2 consoles can do and what AMD said they're aiming for with RDNA 2 over RDNA 1.

Well I hope you're right. The last thing anyone needs is Nvidia getting a free ride at the top.

LePhuronn · 6 Aug 2020 at 18:03

Devrij said:
Well I hope you're right. The last thing anyone needs is Nvidia getting a free ride at the top.

AMD aren't touching the 3080 Ti, so Nvidia still have free reign to bend over the stupid people. AMD should be very competitive from the 3080 downwards. I'm not worried about AMD's performance, I'm worried about AMD's prices.

EastCoastHandle · 6 Aug 2020 at 18:05

Arcane said:
I won't have a word said against Gamers Nexus, I use it most nights when I can't sleep, puts me to sleep within 10 minutes every single time.

LOL
After he tried to defend NDA 2.0/GPP I was done with him as his loyalties are very clear. Strange I cannot find those videos. Appears he removed them, lol. Furthermore, his adverts for Geforce with nothing from RTG is very telling to me. Sure, you can fine a Ryzen advert but no real advert for RTG. Very deceptive if you ask me.

Navi 21 XTX (0x731F: D0)

Navi 21 XT (0x731F: D1)

Navi 21 XL (0x731F: D)

Navi 21 XLE (0x731F: DF)

If this true this might explain the disparity of leaked rumors. As they are only explaining different skus that are all thought to be big navi, XTX.

humbug · 6 Aug 2020 at 18:07

Devrij said:
Doesn't that mean they'd need a greater than 115% increase in performance to achieve 40% faster than a 2080ti? That does seem like a stretch to me.

Not quite, close... for a 5700XT needing 35% to get to a 2080TI its performance relative to it is 0.75, 0.75 + 35% = 101, 0.75 to 1.4 = +80%, 0.75 to 1.5 = +100% (X2 0.75)

The 5700XT has 40 CU's, 80 CU's is X2, so like for like with some scaling reduction (-10%) would make it +40%

If +50% PPW holds true: a 5700XT is 200 Watts, RDNA2 with +50% PPW would be a 60 CU GPU, and 80 CU GPU would be 300 Watts.

The 5700XT is 251mm2, X2 = 502mm2 and that will be smaller than the RTX 3080TI you can be sure of that, the 3080TI is also rumoured to be a 350 Watt GPU.

Devrij · 6 Aug 2020 at 18:07

LePhuronn said:
AMD aren't touching the 3080 Ti, so Nvidia still have free reign to bend over the stupid people. AMD should be very competitive from the 3080 downwards. I'm not worried about AMD's performance, I'm worried about AMD's prices.

Yeah I think AMD could quite happily undercut AMD by like 50 quid and do very well, but I think if they want to claw back market share from people with gsync monitors etc that they'll have to do better

Devrij · 6 Aug 2020 at 18:09

humbug said:
Not quite, close... for a 5700XT needing 35% to get to a 2080TI its performance relative to it is 0.75, 0.75 + 35% = 101, 0.75 to 1.4 = +80%, 0.75 to 1.5 = +100% (X2 0.75)

The 5700XT has 40 CU's, 80 CU's is X2, so like for like with some scaling reduction would make it +40%

If +50% PPW holds true: a 5700XT is 200 Watts, RDNA2 with +50% PPW would be a 60 CU GPU, and 80 CU GPU would be 300 Watts.

The 5700XT is 251mm2, X2 = 502mm2 and that will be smaller than the RTX 3080TI you can be sure of that, the 3080TI is also rumoured to be a 350 Watt GPU.

It's been a long week, got my maths all buggered up :O

LePhuronn · 6 Aug 2020 at 18:12

Devrij said:
Yeah I think AMD could quite happily undercut AMD by like 50 quid and do very well, but I think if they want to claw back market share from people with gsync monitors etc that they'll have to do better

We've already seen 50 notes won't do it. It'll have to be a bigger undercut or chunkier performance for the same money.

EastCoastHandle · 6 Aug 2020 at 18:14

I believe this generation that it's going to take a bit more from the GPU then just brute force. Bandwidth becomes a real concern when you are playing open world games that use ray tracing. Therefore more vram, IMO, will play an important factor.

humbug · 6 Aug 2020 at 18:14

humbug said:
Not quite, close... for a 5700XT needing 35% to get to a 2080TI its performance relative to it is 0.75, 0.75 + 35% = 101, 0.75 to 1.4 = +80%, 0.75 to 1.5 = +100% (X2 0.75)

The 5700XT has 40 CU's, 80 CU's is X2, so like for like with some scaling reduction (-10%) would make it +40%

If +50% PPW holds true: a 5700XT is 200 Watts, RDNA2 with +50% PPW would be a 60 CU GPU, and 80 CU GPU would be 300 Watts.

The 5700XT is 251mm2, X2 = 502mm2 and that will be smaller than the RTX 3080TI you can be sure of that, the 3080TI is also rumoured to be a 350 Watt GPU.

Oh.... forgot to add, the PS5 GPU clocks to 2.23Ghz, thats 330Mhz more than the 5700XT, or +18%

Martini1991 · 6 Aug 2020 at 18:16

LePhuronn said:
We've already seen 50 notes won't do it. It'll have to be a bigger undercut or chunkier performance for the same money.

It's not that simple though to say that though. If AMD had a product that was parity on every single metric as Nvidia, but cheaper, then it'd sell. However, the 5700XT was not that GPU.

Honestly, lowering the price *before* launch to me was the biggest cuckhold tech moment I've ever seen. That's going to have a mindshare hit.
5700XT reference cooling is pretty poor (I run mine at 1025mv at 1900MHZ and it's pretty good on reference cooler, but the 5700XT doesn't run like that at default. It runs a throttling 110C hotspot mess.) is going to hit the GPU.
Lack of features that Nvidia were pushing (In that Raytracing is a bonus, regardless of bias on either side)
The 5700XT drivers were absolutely terrible at launch. Running 2 monitors nigh on didn't work for my brother when we upgraded him from a 1070 until a few more revisions.

humbug · 6 Aug 2020 at 18:25

Martini1991 said:
It's not that simple though to say that though. If AMD had a product that was parity on every single metric as Nvidia, but cheaper, then it'd sell. However, the 5700XT was not that GPU.

Honestly, lowering the price *before* launch to me was the biggest cuckhold tech moment I've ever seen. That's going to have a mindshare hit.
5700XT reference cooling is pretty poor (I run mine at 1025mv at 1900MHZ and it's pretty good on reference cooler, but the 5700XT doesn't run like that at default. It runs a throttling 110C hotspot mess.) is going to hit the GPU.
Lack of features that Nvidia were pushing (In that Raytracing is a bonus, regardless of bias on either side)
The 5700XT drivers were absolutely terrible at launch. Running 2 monitors nigh on didn't work for my brother when we upgraded him from a 1070 until a few more revisions.

I run mine 1070mv with a 2050Mhz target and -7% power, hovers around 1950Mhz.

Martini1991 · 6 Aug 2020 at 18:28

humbug said:
I run mine 1070mv with a 2050Mhz target and -7% power, overs around 1950Mhz.

Sounds like you've got a really good chip.

humbug · 6 Aug 2020 at 18:29

Martini1991 said:
Sounds like you've got a really good chip.

Yeah... for a change. the 3600 is really bad so i guess that balances it out.

RBImGuy · 6 Aug 2020 at 18:46

humbug said:
Oh.... forgot to add, the PS5 GPU clocks to 2.23Ghz, thats 330Mhz more than the 5700XT, or +18%

and Big Navi isn't likely to be slower than the console, maybe the 2.5ghz make sense then

humbug · 6 Aug 2020 at 18:51

RBImGuy said:
and Big Navi isn't likely to be slower than the console, maybe the 2.5ghz make sense then

Maybe, my thinking is with the size of the GPU AMD would want to keep the power down but lol no that's not what AMD do.

However there is nothing to suggest it can do 2.5Ghz, that's 30% higher than Navi 10, i think we should stick with what we know, 2.2Ghz, that's still more than 15% higher and should push an 80 CU Big Navi over the 2080TI +50% threshold.

JediFragger · 6 Aug 2020 at 19:13

humbug said:
I run mine 1070mv with a 2050Mhz target and -7% power, hovers around 1950Mhz.

1.075v with a 2085 target for me atm (2035ish actual) with +30% PL (max), but still tweaking.

Doobedoo · 6 Aug 2020 at 19:33

I’ll be happy with a 6700xt equivalent I think. Hopefully somewhere near the £350 mark although I may be slightly optimistic.

EastCoastHandle · 6 Aug 2020 at 19:35

Looks like Horizon Zero Dawn is very bandwidth sensitive. This coming from Sony's camp.
Bandwidth sensitive games, even before RT, has begun.

gpuerrilla · 6 Aug 2020 at 19:47

Doobedoo said:
I’ll be happy with a 6700xt equivalent I think. Hopefully somewhere near the £350 mark although I may be slightly optimistic.

Very optimistic! The 5700XT is still about and thats its price slot. So for the short term (into 2021) and it being shiny new tech, expect £450-499.

Doobedoo · 6 Aug 2020 at 20:12

Th0nt said:
Very optimistic! The 5700XT is still about and thats its price slot. So for the short term (into 2021) and it being shiny new tech, expect £450-499.

Yeah you’re probably right but I’m patient and can wait for it to drop.