AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[JediFragger]

It sounds like you are assuming AMD can't undercut Nvidia without "killing" their own margins.

AMD don't really like making money on their GPU's

 

[Darujhistan]

According to some friends on discord an AMD card needs to be at least £100 cheaper and offer a bit more performance to be considered. If not might as well just buy nvidia.

I also believe AMD will never gain any market share unless it significantly undercuts nvidia.

It doesn't matter what AMD do with the exception of practically their giving cards away, people just want to buy Nvidia and they'll buy Nvidia.

The mindset especially outside the "enthusiast" community is this:

Nvidia = Gucci.

AMD = Primark.

People don't want to be associated with the "peasant" brand.

 

[Nerusy]

Not sure if waiting for AMD gpu reveal would make sense. If I remember well, people used to say wait for navi and then navi was delayed and delayed and delayed and then we got vega, which was underwhelming to say the least.

I am afraid that waiting for new AMD gpu will be just a repeat of navi, where we will have to wait 6-12 months for AMD to come out with their cards and they are barely competing with 3070.

 

[LePhuronn]

People don't want to be associated with the "peasant" brand.

No, snobs and elitists don't want to be associted with the "peasant" brand. They can get in the sea along with the Nvidiots and leave the purchasing choices to those of us who just want a damn card amongst a set of options at a decent price.

 

[Twinz]

AMD don't really like making money on their GPU's

I think "money needs to be made" and "Nvidia has to make shareholders happy" were some of the phrases used to explain how Nvidia was just going to pull another Turing with crappy price/performance on Ampere.

...Then Nvidia offered 2080Ti-level performance for half the freaking money.

Making less money on more sales can actually net more total profit than making more money on fewer sales. Undercutting your competition doesn't necessarily mean you will make less money in the end.

 

[sideways14a]

This whole mindshare thing can change very quickly, look at Intel if you want a lesson in that.
Ok NV is a lot more competent than Intel and AMD wont have quite the same easy ride that they have had with bugger-ups that intel has had but AMD are also not the same company they were 5 years ago so.... underestimate them if you want but i would not be shocked to see a competitive line up soon - maybe not the winner but in the ballpark which is what Zen1 did and we all know what happened after that.

 

[Twinz]

Not sure if waiting for AMD gpu reveal would make sense. If I remember well, people used to say wait for navi and then navi was delayed and delayed and delayed and then we got vega, which was underwhelming to say the least.

I am afraid that waiting for new AMD gpu will be just a repeat of navi, where we will have to wait 6-12 months for AMD to come out with their cards and they are barely competing with 3070.

I wonder if AMD are looking to deliver a one-two punch by showcasing their new GPUs in a system runing their new CPUs.

It would be great marketing if AMD could produce a Doom video where their all-AMD system outperforms the Intel/Nvidia system.

They don't need to have the fastest of either as long as one of the two components gets the "system" to outperform Nvidia's marketing video.

 

[LePhuronn]

Not sure if waiting for AMD gpu reveal would make sense.

It makes perfect sense if you want to make an informed choice and spend your money wisely.

If I remember well, people used to say wait for navi and then navi was delayed and delayed and delayed and then we got vega, which was underwhelming to say the least.

OK, I get that historical precedent is a thing, but what exactly is wrong with waiting? You're interested in product X, product Y is coming to offer competition and choice, product Y ultimately proves to be unatttractive so you buy product X. You've lost a bit of time, but it's hardly the end of the world. Or product Y proves to be the better choice so you benefitted from waiting.

I am afraid that waiting for new AMD gpu will be just a repeat of navi, where we will have to wait 6-12 months for AMD to come out with their cards and they are barely competing with 3070.

lol OK

 

[gpuerrilla]

I wouldnt say nvidia are out of the woods just yet, there will be more critique as people get their hands on them and feedback. We also can wait for the power consumption and heat reports so no need to duck each others sicks just yet.

 

[humbug]

careful what you wish for

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

TBF,price was a major factor why people bought Ryzen. So AMD probably should try and price aggressively,because in the end if they do have RTX3070 and RTX3080 competitors,the ASP will still be higher than what they have now.

 

[gpuerrilla]

You got a problem with Welsh people?

 

[LePhuronn]

I wonder if AMD are looking to deliver a one-two punch by showcasing their new GPUs in a system runing their new CPUs.

It would be great marketing if AMD could produce a Doom video where their all-AMD system outperforms the Intel/Nvidia system.

They don't need to have the fastest of either as long as one of the two components gets the "system" to outperform Nvidia's marketing video.

It would certainly save some marketing cash if they did another big double reveal. Remember the "show of force" comments from awhile back. The consoles aren't just AMD graphics technology, they use AMD CPUs as well, so that "show of force" could quite easily be CPU and GPU as a unified front, as you suggest. The ultimate gaming experience is AMD technology, showcased by Ryzen CPUs and RDNA 2 graphics tearing it up in the PC gaming space and the consoles.

And right there I made a better marketing pitch than AMD do you think I should ask 4K8K to put my CV in with his?

 

[sideways14a]

Yeah i think the double reveal is where they will go, lets face it guys Zen3 is almost certainly going to be the big daddy in everything ... possibly even gaming and will be the chips to have for the next year.
We dont know about RDNA2 but if its like Zen2 was to Zen1 (+) then it will be a great part and while maybe not thrashing NV at everything will be a good choice for folk.

As i said before, NV release this time speaks volumes about there competition - the prices and the TDP kind of make that obvious to me.

 

[Twinz]

It would certainly save some marketing cash if they did another big double reveal. Remember the "show of force" comments from awhile back. The consoles aren't just AMD graphics technology, they use AMD CPUs as well, so that "show of force" could quite easily be CPU and GPU as a unified front, as you suggest. The ultimate gaming experience is AMD technology, showcased by Ryzen CPUs and RDNA 2 graphics tearing it up in the PC gaming space and the consoles.

And right there I made a better marketing pitch than AMD do you think I should ask 4K8K to put my CV in with his?

I think that leaked VR benchmark where an AMD card beat the fastest *overclocked* 2080Ti in the data base was using a 4800U CPU.

The more I think about that benchmark, the more I think Nvidia needed to leave a big gap between the 3080 and the 3090. The cat and mouse game is starting to come into focus.

If that Big Navi card was running at stock clocks, it's probably a good bit faster than the 3080. If AMD wanted to embarrass Nvidia, putting that card in the same price bracket as the 3080 would do the trick.

Nvidia probably has something ready to beat that big Navi card, but they have already planted a flag at the $700 price point. Forcing Nvidia to move that flag, would be a big PR/mindshare victory.

 

[humbug]

I tend to agree with Mores Law is Dead.

AMD don't have infinite amount of 7nm wafer suply and they are selling more CPU's than they can produce, they could make four or even six 8 core CPU's with the die space one Big Navi will take up.

Clearly its more profitable for them to use that die space to make those CPU's which they know will have been sold before they are even made.

If AMD are to make a large 500mm2 GPU they will be doing it to regain some marketshare and mindshare in the GPU space, it will be a cost investment to them. I hope AMD are of the mind to make that investment, taking Nvidia on like this has not worked out well for them in the past so here's hoping AMD feel like with the good will and respect people have for their Ryzen CPU's some of it will rub off on the GPU side and people start buying into the brand.

 

[LePhuronn]

Nvidi probably has something ready to beat that big Navi card, but they have already planted a flag at the $700 price point. Forcing Nvidia to move that flag, would be a big PR/mindshare victory.

3080 lands, 6900X beats it, 3080 Ti beats it back, 6950XT comes back again, Nvidia waves the 3090 as the untouchable, 6990XTX 400W HBM2e AIO-cooled monster gets within punching distance enough for people to take AMD seriously, even if they didn't take the actual crown. Hell, if this mythic unicorn 6990XTX beats the 3090, Nvidia will just drop an actual Titan when Samsung's yields improve.

Oh how I can dream

 

[TonyTurbo78]

Zen3 4000 4.5ghz to 5ghz
PCIex4.0 boards
Big Navi 80 CU, higher core clock than 3080 with 16gbvram and lower TDP

They'll be killing it the end of this year.

 

[sideways14a]

Yes its a bit of a problem, AMD will prob sell every Zen chip they make while huge area GPUs wont - then again they could make a total whopper and market it like the titan - limited edition crap ect... if its a monster folk will have to have it.

 

[LePhuronn]

I tend to agree with Mores Law is Dead.

AMD don't have infinite amount of 7nm wafer suply and they are selling more CPU's than they can produce, they could make four or even six 8 core CPU's with the die space one Big Navi will take up.

Clearly its more profitable for them to use that die space to make those CPU's which they know will have been sold before they are even made.

Although I concurred with MLID's viewpoint on that, I did raise an eyebrow when he mentioned 7NP as the node for Big Navi. Zen 2 and Zen 3 aren't 7NP. I know the nodes are design-compatible with each other, but I was under the impression TSMC had physically different machines for each of their 7nm variants. If that's the case then AMD don't have to choose between CPUs or GPUs.

Of course, which node is TSMC using for the consoles?