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AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

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ICDP said:
Because of either Nvidia's greed, or a failed gamble with TSMC, we have a situation where AMD have been given a big opportunity to close the gap. They missed the last one when Turing was only 25% faster than 1080Ti (at release). Why they didn't release a bigger 5900XT is anyone's guess but the fact they didn't left them at 3rd tier for over two years. They did release Radeon VII as a sort of effort I suppose but time has not been kind to it (where's that AMD fine wine?) but why not a 5900XT?
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Maybe there is a clue there why AMD hasn't gone bigger than the 5700 and nVidia utilised Samsung. I can't pretend to have the answers but with the increasing wafer price of TSMC 7nm and other 7nm clients moving some of their bigger designs back to 12/14nm along with rumoured shortages on certain 7nm products the answer might not be what some people want to think.
 
aoaaron said:
That just seems like a very lazy, illogical excuse. Surely get the card out, get NVIDIA's share of the pre-orders. NVIDIA can't exactly release their 20GB cards next month given they've just released their 10GB card range and release it to AIBs.. NVIDIA would look really silly if they released a 16GB 3070 next month for example when their flagship 3080 or 10GB.

So AMD announce what they have, open up pre-orders, AMD will have a bigger share of the market than they would have. Then NVIDIA 6 months from now release their 20GB cards... then AMD price drop to provide even better value and more people probably jump ship to AMD given they are cheaper, console + CPU hype, providing great performance with 16GB of VRAM which is more relevant than 20GB and NVIDIA are stuck in a very difficult place

AMD aren't going to have enough stock for pre-orders or for orders regardless of if they announce in 2 weeks or 6 weeks.. I think the painting is on the wall for that and if we look at stocking levels historically from them, it'd paint the same picture re: near launch.

The reason AMD aren't doing this suggests to me they don't have the goods to go to toe to toe with the RTX 3080 and it'd be better to announce their product line closer to the 3070 benchmarks instead.

And if thats the case and AMD are just marginally beating the 2080ti, without NVIDIA's far more mature feature set (RTX, DLSS, VRSS, Freestyle, NVIDIA audio thing which takes away ambient sound) .. then its dissapointing IMO regardless of a few gigs of extra VRAM with maybe 1-3 games will take advantage of.. and even then... no point having VRAM without the speed to back it up.
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But perhaps the Christmas run up period trumps the NV pre-orders.
 
james.miller said:
If i was looking for 3080 performance and AMD had nothing, id buy a 3080. job done.
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Lol. I know right. If the boys that bang on about AMD not leaking anything just bought their 3080 there would be no whinging! Oh wait, is it because you cant get one for weeks so the 'first to launch' has crash landed and realistically the masses arent getting them till October anyway!?

Bobith said:
If most games will be developed on next Gen consoles using AMD architecture, wouldn't that mean these games will be more compatible when ported to the PC with better performance then a similar Nvidia GPU?
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This is similar to the fine wine phenomenon. Basically if any dGPU has an advantage with games being developed for the consoles it aint gonna be nvidia.

Realistically though, we need more leaks till you can ascertain where the lineup is going to hit. Personally there is no point getting excited about a card if you buy it then have to wait six weeks till it arrives at your door.
 
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Th0nt said:
Lol. I know right. If the boys that bang on about AMD not leaking anything just bought their 3080 there would be no whinging! Oh wait, is it because you cant get one for weeks so the 'first to launch' has crash landed and realistically the masses arent getting them till October anyway!?
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I know Nvidia screwed up with 3series big time.

But AMD hasnt been exactly perfect at launching their two last "top of the stack" cards either. In fact, they have been worse than nvidia.
Radeon VII springs to mind and 5700XT. That's all pre COVID mess.

Now imagine if this happens to AMD. You will be looking at 2021 until you can get Navi in your PC. Good bye holiday season.
Its not the performance i fear the most around NAVI it will be its non-existant quantity.
 
ICDP said:
I think you are arguing that because AMD have not given us their expectations that we should not be giving our own It doesn't work like that and for the past few GPU releases AMD have been aiming to meet Nvidia tech that they know is going to be 2 years old when AMD release. Weather that is by design or because AMD simply couldn't aim higher is irrelevant because the net effect is ever shrinking mindshare and market-share. It's the old "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results".
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Then you're not looking far enough back at the company. They nearly put themselves under, remember? What they have managed in a relatively short time with the limited funds they had compared to both Intel AND nVidia has been pretty damn remarkable. So no, i never did expect them to beat nVidia when they almost beat themselves completely out of contention. I fully expect AMD to get back in the running with the progress they have shown. But i dont expect it right now and wont do unless they tell us more.
 
ICDP said:
The preceding sentence you left out does put that quote into better context. I know they work with what they have but the perception from the consumers is "For some reason the last few AMD GPU releases have worked in some weird bubble"

The reality is (regardless of reasons) that AMDs best GPUs barely match Nvidia's 2 year old tech and their mindshare and market-share keep shrinking. Hence my point that perceptions are they are always two steps behind Nvidia looking like donkeys. I hope that RDNA2 has benefited from the profits, R&D and skills/knowledge from the Ryzen success to help them close that gap and improve mindshare. Though for that to happen I believe they need to be closer to RTX3080 price/performance than the 2 year old 2080TI.
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And the reality is that for the better part of a decade AMD have been running on a shoestring, they threw all their eggs in the one basket with Ryzen (after a redesign of bulldozer was considered) and that's where the lions share of the company's efforts have gone. They were on the verge of bankruptcy numerous times in that period whilst still trying to build products to compete with multi Billion Dollar Corporations. I'd say they have done reasonably well to maintain even a 20% share in the GPU space with those considerations.

It's ok to talk about Mindshare etc but to the average gamer AMD GPU's are still associated with dodgy drivers, ask almost any casual gamer why not have a Radeon instead of a Geforce and "bad drivers" is the answer you would usually get. You still see people talking about bad drivers in twitter feeds on the AMD account despite not even owning a Radeon GPU.

On the CPU front AMD are surging ahead, but drivers have never really been a factor there, on the GPU side the driver is critical. The reputation has haunted ATI since around the time of the Rage Fury Maxx and still hangs about, it's like a meme that simply won't go away. AMD drivers are at least as good as Nvidia's but the reality is people think otherwise and are hesitant to try an AMD GPU because of that.
 
Dontrocktheboat said:
But AMD hasnt been exactly perfect at launching their two last "top of the stack" cards either. In fact, they have been worse than nvidia.
Radeon VII springs to mind and 5700XT. That's all pre COVID mess.
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The facts are though nvidia did screw up the launch, even the greenest of fanboys will be hurt by this garbage and price gouging isnt tolerated by whichever brand you favour. If I was AMD and they knew their cards will be just as good, they need to limit sales (1 per account/household whatever) and be clever learning from nvidias mistakes.
 
james.miller said:
Then you're not looking far enough back at the company. They nearly put themselves under, remember? What they have managed in a relatively short time with the limited funds they had compared to both Intel AND nVidia has been pretty damn remarkable. So no, i never did expect them to beat nVidia when they almost beat themselves completely out of contention. I fully expect AMD to get back in the running with the progress they have shown. But i dont expect it right now and wont do unless they tell us more.
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EU saved AMD's ass. People forget.
EU regulators on Wednesday slapped a record 1.06 billion euro ($1.45 billion) fine on Intel Corp for antitrust violations and ordered it to halt illegal efforts to squeeze out arch-foe AMD. (2009)

Probably funded development for Ryzen. lol

tnx god for Brexit. oh wait....
 
Dontrocktheboat said:
EU saved AMD's ass. People forget.
EU regulators on Wednesday slapped a record 1.06 billion euro ($1.45 billion) fine on Intel Corp for antitrust violations and ordered it to halt illegal efforts to squeeze out arch-foe AMD. (2009)

Probably funded development for Ryzen. lol

tnx god for Brexit. oh wait....
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You sound like you are surprised, do you think this has not happened before...
 
Why do AMD no longer compete at the high end for Radeon?
They have the Halo product 3990X Threadripper which even though it's stupidly expensive, it's good marketing for the rest of the Ryzen range. The Halo effect DOES work.
 
shrek2 said:
Why do AMD no longer compete at the high end for Radeon?
They have the Halo product 3990X Threadripper which even though it's stupidly expensive, it's good marketing for the rest of the Ryzen range. The Halo effect DOES work.
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Ryzen took several years to be designed and to come to market, the same thing CAN happen with the GPU front, just not overnight.
 
aoaaron said:
My only worry is the feature set being a bit behind NVIDIA.

But then again, Raytracing on NVIDIA cards is hardly a toggle on and off switch as at present, it eats up the FPS. Even looking at 3080 benchmarks, raytracing is a big killer of FPS, and I don't think many people will take 60fps/RT over 100-120FPS/noRT. DLSS is a game-changer IF developers support it.. which they don't seem to be all the time. All NVIDIA need to do is find the most demanding games to be released and work WITH the developer to get DLSS in the game, but as shown by RDR2 and HZD, they didn't and those games made 20 series GPUs cry. Or maybe they just see DLSS and a mode to off-set the performance loss of RT which makes sense.. but is a bit less of an incentive given not many games are still using RT.
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I will gladly replace 100+ FPS for 60 with RT ON, which is why I am replacing my 1080Ti FTW3 with a 3080. Nvidia's 20 series was very much a beta for RT, now with the 30 series we get the much faster and usable 2nd gen. I'd love AMD to compete with Nvidia in this area, but I just can't see it happening. You also have to factor in that engines such as UE have built in support for RT now so it is something we will see a lot more of next year. I'll just add that I'm no great fan of Nvidia.
 
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