AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[DDH]

Yes, assuming similar IPC to RDNA. This is based on the performance difference between the RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT. The 5700 XT has +11.1% more CUs and +10.4% higher clocks, resulting in a 12.7% increase in the 3D Mark Graphics Score. So, it looks like much higher clocks would be needed to double RDNA2 performance.

You can see a similar pattern with older GPUs too - The 5700 XT's higher clock rate helps it to keep up with the Radeon VII.

Higher clocks improve overall GPU performance, because they boost the pixel and texture rate, as well as the TFlop count. One of the reasons the RTX 3080's performance increase was 'just' 24% (or perhaps a bit higher) vs the RTX 2080 TI, was that Nvidia only increased the clock rate by 10.6%.

I think the rumour mill has focused too much on RDNA 2 having 80 CUs, I assume this is because they simply have no idea what the maximum clocks could be. Maybe GPU clocks could be higher than expected?

The 5700 isn't just 10% less hardware than a 5700xt though. It has the same ROPs and other hardware. A better example would be the 5500xt vs the 5700xt, which the 5500xt has half the memory bandwidth, half the ROPs, 55% of the CUs and TMUs, 3% lower clocks. The 5700xt is 90% faster than a 5500xt at 1080p

From this we could conclude that an card with 84cus, 336TMUs, 128 ROPs, 1962mhz boost would also be 90% faster.

 

[Jacky60]

Found in aquariums? Cichlids are fresh water fish found in a few lakes in Africa, America, Madagascar and Asia with the majority of species found in lake Malawi. Awesome agressive fish are Cichlids.

Thanks for the clarification, I did laugh at the aquarium statement, a bit like saying Giraffes are found in Zoos.

 

[Zeeflyboy]

Yes, assuming similar IPC to RDNA. This is based on the performance difference between the RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT. The 5700 XT has +11.1% more CUs and +10.4% higher clocks, resulting in a 12.7% increase in the 3D Mark Graphics Score. So, it looks like much higher clocks would be needed to double RDNA2 performance.

Another possibility is an 80 CU GPU, combined with 320 TMUs and 128 ROPS. I expect that could potentially improve performance by 90-100% (perhaps with just small IPC or clock improvements).

Or, AMD could combine 80 CUs with 25% higher GPU clocks, and a 75% increase in TMUs and ROPs.

thanks for expanding on the logic.

I suppose one problem is the assumption that RDNA2 scales in the same way as RDNA1 which may well not be the case and could be why we only saw them release a mid range 40CU part using RDNA - it is perhaps likely it didn’t scale well enough to make a higher CU part viable.

Also as pointed out by @DDH the better comparison is probably the 5500XT to 5700XT as that is almost literally half the card that the 5700XT is at similar clocks.

 

[dazzlaa]

The one thing that bothers me is the lack of leaks, if they really had something 2x 5700xt.
With all the chaos surrounding nvidia right now and the many sour customers, you would imagine a timed leak could prove to be absolute genius.

 

[StrikingBadger]

can you elucidate your logic on that one?

5700XT has 40CU and can clock to a little over 2ghz if given the beans.

You are saying that a card with literally twice as many CU’s, potential clocks up to 2.5ghz (seems too high to me but I’ll take you at your word here), and with IPC gains over RDNA1 can’t double performance?

RAM bandwidth?

 

[Jacky60]

Up until now it was thought to be regular DDR6 not the fast stuff nvidia has access to. So unless your eluding to HBM its not going to double the price of the card surely? Vega was expensive but what around £500?

alluding!

 

[eeek]

The one thing that bothers me is the lack of leaks, if they really had something 2x 5700xt.
With all the chaos surrounding nvidia right now and the many sour customers, you would imagine a timed leak could prove to be absolute genius.

Why? The last thing AMD would want to do is a repeat of the Nvidia disaster so it's best not to build up the hype..

 

[Nablaoperator]

So where can we expect these cards to line up in terms of the 3090 and 3080?

https://www.techradar.com/news/amd-big-navi-might-still-be-faster-than-the-rtx-3080

 

[Jacky60]

Why? The last thing AMD would want to do is a repeat of the Nvidia disaster so it's best not to build up the hype..

+1 AMD's silence is reassuring. I remember ordering a Fury X based on AMDs hype then abruptly cancelling it once I'd seen the lack of RAM and inferior performance to the 980ti for more money!
Hoping for 80 CU GPU, combined with 320 TMUs and 128 ROPS AND a 2.3-25Ghz clock speed AND 15%+ IPC gains.

 

[Nablaoperator]

128 ROPS

This has something that states RB count, assuming this is RBE.. it still works out to 16 RBEs.. now assuming 1 RBU = 4 ROPs like in old navi the estimated ROP count is 64..could someone verify this?

Edit: https://www.pcgamer.com/a-linux-update-may-have-let-slip-amd-big-navis-mammoth-core/

 

[D.P.]

can you elucidate your logic on that one?

5700XT has 40CU and can clock to a little over 2ghz if given the beans.

You are saying that a card with literally twice as many CU’s, potential clocks up to 2.5ghz (seems too high to me but I’ll take you at your word here), and with IPC gains over RDNA1 can’t double performance?

with diminishing returns and the bottleneck principal it would be highly unlikely, and it is dubious if an 80CU chip would even exist, and if it did the clock's wont be that high, or if the clocks are high the IPC will be lowered like Pascal.

This is the same 7nm node, so you can just look at power draw to figure that raw theoretical performance wont be more than double, and in game will be 70-80% if that.

 

[queamin]

The one thing that bothers me is the lack of leaks, if they really had something 2x 5700xt.
With all the chaos surrounding nvidia right now and the many sour customers, you would imagine a timed leak could prove to be absolute genius.

Why a lot of people who brought preordered would have brought Nvidia anyway and how many have been sold, I said quite a few days back I thought they only just got complete cards back and testing them, no one knew what 3080 was until the reviews came out.
They want Zen out and done before RDNA2 is talked about on 28th, last time they talked about both of them together Zen took all the lime light in the press and the Graphic's cards launch was hardly spoken of, it almost slipped under the radar.

 

[Phate]

Plus Nvidia hasn't slowed down. Seen that they sponsored Linus and MKBHD to review the 3090? If anything, the way Nvidia is acting to plaster the 30 series absolutely everywhere to me shows that they feel some kind of threat from AMD

The silence is reassuring. They're not being desperate IMO, which is a good thing.

 

[Joxeon]

Why a lot of people who brought preordered would have brought Nvidia anyway and how many have been sold, I said quite a few days back I thought they only just got complete cards back and testing them, no one knew what 3080 was until the reviews came out.
They want Zen out and done before RDNA2 is talked about on 28th, last time they talked about both of them together Zen took all the lime light in the press and the Graphic's cards launch was hardly spoken of, it almost slipped under the radar.

It also gives extra advertising for zen 3 if the Gpus are benched on systems with those especially if they are faster than Intel.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

The one thing that bothers me is the lack of leaks, if they really had something 2x 5700xt.
With all the chaos surrounding nvidia right now and the many sour customers, you would imagine a timed leak could prove to be absolute genius.

and take the spotlight away from Nvidia while they bumble around on stage?
Personally i would let Nvidia soak in the mess they have created and once the heat from that starts to cool down leak some more info.

 

[Phate]

and take the spotlight away from Nvidia while they bumble around on stage?

This.

When people are being clowns. You don't shoot them down. You give them a bigger stage to dance on.

 

[Shiari]

When people are being clowns. You don't shoot them down. You give them a bigger stage to dance on.

 

[Vince]

Thanks for the clarification, I did laugh at the aquarium statement, a bit like saying Giraffes are found in Zoos.

I wont lie I did have a little chuckle when I read it I used to keep some Cichlids as they are pretty easy to keep so long as you pack them in otherwise they fight like crazy over territory - Decent starter fish for tropical tanks and I think some of the most colourful tropical fish out there hence the popularity.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

@LoadsaMoney where TF is Paul???

 

[queamin]

It also gives extra advertising for zen 3 if the Gpus are benched on systems with those especially if they are faster than Intel.

That will happen on 28th comparing Intel to Zen.