AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[Nabeshogun]

Too many people are setting unrealistic goals that AMD need to achieve, so they can defend Nvidia.... such as

Needs to beat 3080 performance at £500
Needs to beat Nvidia at DLSS and Raytracing and still be cheaper
Needs to beat 3090 and be half the price
Need to have 40million units available on release day or its a fail

I think it's more than people aren't expecting AMD to match nVidia on everything, so are expecting it to be cheaper and it'll be a balance of how much cheaper for how much worse... like lets say it matches a 3080 perfectly, but doesn't have RTX and DLSS (the latter being the important one to me, but I just mentioned RTX to mean there's no cores that could be used for that kind of stuff once AMD comes out with DLSS down the line and you'd need a different card for that)... well then I'd certainly not pay 3080 prices ... but if it was slightly ahead of the 3080 and cost £500 then that'd make me try to balance it out as it'd be a saving but I'd not have the huge performance gains DLSS can give as my stuff ages out...

I thoroughly expect AMDs gpus to fully sell out too, it may have done anyway but I doubly think it will now with all the folks that missed out on a 3080 (this is presuming what they release is good).

 

[Shiari]

Well, DLSS isn't an important feature on its own. DLSS allows the card to push the resolution so it can run the game at high detail and high performance. If the card already has the performance, or it has a similar feature (FidelityFX maybe) it doesn't need "DLSS". Basically it's a means to an end, so "it not having DLSS" is in itself really not something worth complaining about. If it can't match the performance, then yeah that's a valid reason.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

Well, DLSS isn't an important feature on its own. DLSS allows the card to push the resolution so it can run the game at high detail and high performance. If the card already has the performance, or it has a similar feature (FidelityFX maybe) it doesn't need "DLSS". Basically it's a means to an end, so "it not having DLSS" is in itself really not something worth complaining about. If it can't match the performance, then yeah that's a valid reason.

You mean it allows Nvidia to say they have an 8k card when it's all DLSS upsampling .

 

[Shiari]

You mean it allows Nvidia to say they have an 8k card when it's all DLSS upsampling .

Hehe ... yeah that's a side-effect of it.

 

[Dontrocktheboat]

Amd very rarely not shine.

RDNA 1 did shine within its admittedly limited scope, RDNA 2 is starting to glimmer even with little information out there, Nvidia went into utter panic mode and botched Ampere at every level. AMD are already shining.
e.

5700 XT did shine in couple of areas.. Crappy blower design that was too loud and GPU worked at 91C.
Shoddy driver release which have since then become a meme in itself.
And the lack of any availability on release and its staggering initial price of $449 quid.

Lets hope navi doesn’t shine the same way, otherwise its going down the proverbial *******.

 

[Shiari]

If I hadn't had a Vega + block already I'm sure I would've grabbed a 5700 XT, but as an upgrade it wasn't a big enough jump.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

5700 XT did shine in couple of areas.. Crappy blower design that was too loud and GPU worked at 91C.
Shoddy driver release which have since then become a meme in itself.
And the lack of any availability on release and its staggering initial price of $449 quid.

Lets hope navi doesn’t shine the same way, otherwise its going down the proverbial *******.

The blower admittedly wasn't ideal, but it did the job while being loud. The temperature never affected stability so it's not really relevant.
The driver situation sure was an issue but was massively overblown and many people didn't have any problems. The 3080 seems to be having similar problems, I wonder if it will be tarred for it's entire lifespan.
Availability was no worse than most recent launches and the "staggering" price was lower than a 2070 and 2070 Super when it came out, while beating one and competing with the other.

 

[KentMan]

I think it's more than people aren't expecting AMD to match nVidia on everything, so are expecting it to be cheaper and it'll be a balance of how much cheaper for how much worse... like lets say it matches a 3080 perfectly, but doesn't have RTX and DLSS (the latter being the important one to me, but I just mentioned RTX to mean there's no cores that could be used for that kind of stuff once AMD comes out with DLSS down the line and you'd need a different card for that)... well then I'd certainly not pay 3080 prices ... but if it was slightly ahead of the 3080 and cost £500 then that'd make me try to balance it out as it'd be a saving but I'd not have the huge performance gains DLSS can give as my stuff ages out...

I thoroughly expect AMDs gpus to fully sell out too, it may have done anyway but I doubly think it will now with all the folks that missed out on a 3080 (this is presuming what they release is good).

See again, i see this as unrealistic.... DLSS and Ray Tracing are in a small handful of games are they not? i mean not every game off the shelf supports these technologies right? So how comes they are a sudden must have for most people? seems to me to be a convenient excuse to not buy an AMD card in all honesty... then you say it has to be basically £250 cheaper than a 3080 by saying £500.. So basically you want a 3080 for £500... as lets be honest 99% of games dont feature DLSS or RTX Support.

Honestly i think people spout DLSS without realising it is not the magic bullet people proclaim it to be, as if it was Every game would have it and support it. Seems to be mostly used as an excuse for peoples justification of purchasing Nvidia against AMD lately.

Honestly if AMD match a 3080 without RTX and DLSS i'll happily pay £600-650 for it, as i dont like to pay for "Features" that only exist in a small handful of games, i just want the raw performance in ALL games.

 

[KentMan]

The blower admittedly wasn't ideal, but it did the job while being loud. The temperature never affected stability so it's not really relevant.
The driver situation sure was an issue but was massively overblown and many people didn't have any problems. The 3080 seems to be having similar problems, I wonder if it will be tarred for it's entire lifespan.
Availability was no worse than most recent launches and the "staggering" price was lower than a 2070 and 2070 Super when it came out, while beating one and competing with the other.

Went from 6950 > 7870 > 290 (4 diff ones) > 1070 > Vega 64 > 5700XT and not once had driver issues, and during that time ive swapped from an i5 2500k to an i7 4770k to 1700 and now 3800X, so different motherboards, Ram etc... not had any driver issues with AMD.

I know lots of people did, but i think they probably had other issues with their builds that caused these issues as well, just seems an easy get out to blame AMD drivers for this.

 

[melmac]

Polaris didn't shine. It offered by then R390 performance for by then R390 prices.

That's not exactly shining. If it is you've set a very low bar.

They also had to sacrifice perf/W to get anywhere near nVidia, clocking the cards well above their sweet spot.

AMD haven't shined in the GPU market for the last 15 years. They have had a few decent GPUs but most of their releases have been "meh"

Or to put it another way. How may AMD GPUs released in the last 15 or so years would make people who have a Nvidia card switch over and not just buy another Nvidia card?

 

[WildWayz]

I've been out of the AMD GPU scene for a long time... I keep getting confused over which model is the top teir - or even the order of how good each one is!

Is the 5900XT meant to be their top tier (3080-ish) kinda card (I know we don't have the details yet) - is the Vega the better line?

 

[gpuerrilla]

See again, i see this as unrealistic.... DLSS and Ray Tracing are in a small handful of games are they not? i mean not every game off the shelf supports these technologies right? So how comes they are a sudden must have for most people? seems to me to be a convenient excuse to not buy an AMD card in all honesty... then you say it has to be basically £250 cheaper than a 3080 by saying £500.. So basically you want a 3080 for £500... as lets be honest 99% of games dont feature DLSS or RTX Support.

This is the elephant in the room of many fanboyesq glass arguments. Basically, want your cake and eat it but instead of eating it still want nvidia to just match the price so you can pick up the brand you want for the price of the cheaper competitor.

 

[michty_me]

match the price so you can pick up the brand you want for the price of the cheaper competitor.

I've noticed a few instances of this reading news articles where posters have stated they hope AMD bring competitive performance and price so that NVidia drop their product to suit. They have no intention of switching.

 

[Bergkamp]

Balls to ray tracing!! For the few games that actually use it in any meaningful way we all have to pay over the odds for barely functioning tech, while VR resolutions are increasing and headsets getting cheaper we should be focusing on the grunt to run those to increase immersion rather than a couple of fancy frills that drop twice a year.

 

[Troezar]

Well, DLSS isn't an important feature on its own. DLSS allows the card to push the resolution so it can run the game at high detail and high performance. If the card already has the performance, or it has a similar feature (FidelityFX maybe) it doesn't need "DLSS". Basically it's a means to an end, so "it not having DLSS" is in itself really not something worth complaining about. If it can't match the performance, then yeah that's a valid reason.

Yes, DLSS is useful because the GPU isn't powerful enough to drive the native resolution. It's actually highlighting a weakness but being sold as a positive. Personally I prefer to be behind the curve on resolution. It seems like 4K had been touted for the last 10 years, I can only imagine how long it will take for 8K to become mainstream!

 

[Shiari]

Yes, DLSS is useful because the GPU isn't powerful enough to drive the native resolution. It's actually highlighting a weakness but being sold as a positive. Personally I prefer to be behind the curve on resolution. It seems like 4K had been touted for the last 10 years, I can only imagine how long it will take for 8K to become mainstream!

I don't think you understood my post.

 

[melmac]

Went from 6950 > 7870 > 290 (4 diff ones) > 1070 > Vega 64 > 5700XT and not once had driver issues, and during that time ive swapped from an i5 2500k to an i7 4770k to 1700 and now 3800X, so different motherboards, Ram etc... not had any driver issues with AMD.

I know lots of people did, but i think they probably had other issues with their builds that caused these issues as well, just seems an easy get out to blame AMD drivers for this.

No, ATI/AMD's driver problems up to the release of the Tahiti cards were real. They improved a hell of lot after that. From then until the release of RDNA 1 cards Both companies were basically the same with regards to driver issues. But AMD's black screen issues with the first generation Navi was a step back.

Hopefully they don't repeat this with RDNA2.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

No, ATI/AMD's driver problems up to the release of the Tahiti cards were real. They improved a hell of lot after that. From then until the release of RDNA 1 cards Both companies were basically the same with regards to driver issues. But AMD's black screen issues with the first generation Navi was a step back.

Hopefully they don't repeat this with RDNA2.

I personally had a 3870, 4870, 5870 and 7970 with no issues. I have a 1080Ti now and get black screens when connecting my TV via HDMI.

Disconnecting the TV stops the black screens (which are intermittent) and reconnecting it causes them to happen again, so it's definitely an issue but it's not often I use my TV with my PC anyway so not massively fussed.

 

[Troezar]

I don't think you understood my post.

I understand it precisely. We don't need DLSS if the GPU is powerful enough to run at the required frame rate with the required bells and whistles. It's not a feature is making up for deficiencies. Less pixels to push and your GPU will get the FPS and effects without it.

 

[gpuerrilla]

I've noticed a few instances of this reading news articles where posters have stated they hope AMD bring competitive performance and price so that NVidia drop their product to suit. They have no intention of switching.

Correct.

Which is why I stand firm on my statement to the strange people that retort "its AMD's fault nvidia are so expensive" , well its not is it? nvidia are putting out the price they want to charge to make profit. This 30 series release is not cheaper, its the going rate for their lineup (see 10 series and before). So not if, but when AMD release their cards and they undercut nvidia, will we see the excuses @KentMan has adeptly highlighted of "oh well it needs to have DLSS and raytracing" because that's exactly whats gonna happen here. So no, its not AMD's fault for anything as people just want to buy one brand <end argument>.