AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[jonneymendoza]

The only time I think it's justified is when people are paying stupidly inflated prices and it enables companies to just milk us for every penny they can get.
If we could show some self restraint it might help us get products for more reasonable prices.

I appreciate thats hippy talk.

That is true

 

[gpuerrilla]

The other stumbling block as far as DLSS adoption goes is it wont be console native, and as much as we PC gamers hate it, console gaming revenue drives the gaming industry.

DLSS like a lot of Nvidia proprietary stuff may never get a true foothold due to this

Apologies, not getting at you personally but I really wish this lie would die already. It is pure Nvidia marketing BS as usual but DLSS is not actually better than 4K native. The comparisons are generally made at 4K with TAA which softens the image. If you compare to actual 4K with MSAA then DLSS is inferior. DLSS will cause some artifacting during movement but most of the time it does very well. The problem with 4K MSAA is it takes a lot of GPU grunt and this is where DLSS helps but the reality is your are not at TRUE 4K when you enable DLSS.

Has any Nvidia proprietary technology ever gained wide adoption? I presume not as they'd never open their technology up. That is one thing putting me off Nvidia, they like to tie users in and then drop technology when it doesn't take off. I like to keep my options open, especially with fast moving technology.

Been mentioned before just saying your adding or representing this information again. Its not that we dont like it, we do, but to champion one vendor and worship this being solely what you buy a GPU for is nonsensical. Dont use this as an excuse to justify your purchasing decision. If you like nvidia, like heinz ketchup then just say it. Dont hide behind it.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Been mentioned before just saying your adding or representing this information again. Its not that we dont like it, we do, but to champion one vendor and worship this being solely what you buy a GPU for is nonsensical. Dont use this as an excuse to justify your purchasing decision. If you like nvidia, like heinz ketchup then just say it. Dont hide behind it.

i am not afraid to jump to AMD mate

 

[gpuerrilla]

Its not really a jump on AMD or nvidia thing. I like technology, I buy what I can afford (or think I can afford), I dont worship brands and if I'm in Lidl and need ketchup I dont always buy Heinz!

I was keen on the 3080 with the £650 price. Very keen.

Not so keen to compete with bots and F5 2pm spammers, but my loss.

As I can be patient, looks like it might pay off, also the AMD release looks to be better than anticipated (maybe reason Jensen and the boys rushed it out and lower prices?).

250w trades blows with a 3080 maybe under £600? Yes please.

 

[Kirby Wurm]

250w trades blows with a 3080 maybe under £600? Yes please.

The price is an interesting one. If it beats a 3080 by 5% should they charge £200 more and say it smashes the 3090 in value?

 

[KentMan]

Its not really a jump on AMD or nvidia thing. I like technology, I buy what I can afford (or think I can afford), I dont worship brands and if I'm in Lidl and need ketchup I dont always buy Heinz!

I was keen on the 3080 with the £650 price. Very keen.

Not so keen to compete with bots and F5 2pm spammers, but my loss.

As I can be patient, looks like it might pay off, also the AMD release looks to be better than anticipated (maybe reason Jensen and the boys rushed it out and lower prices?).

250w trades blows with a 3080 maybe under £600? Yes please.

I fully agree, my rig is currently all AMD, as im a fan of performance per £ spent, its recently also been Intel and Nvidia when AMD didnt compete.

I always buy what i feel to me personally represents the best bang for buck, this is not always indicative of actual real world though, i mean i have the 3800x and its really no better than the 3700x, except i can maybe run some ram in the early days others struggled with, but i wanted the best 8c silicon.

I bought a 5700x as i liked the performance at the res i play, 3440x1440p, however now i want to upgrade as newer games will tax this i feel, Cyberpunk 2077 being one, Diablo 4 potentially, and i want some more grunt if i move to 4k.

When they announced the 3080 price i was at the point of buying but wanted to wait for AIB reviews, as on paper the 3080 offers everything i want, really good upgrade at my res, and fits a price bracket that i deem acceptable to pay, £650. I have zero interest in RTX and DLSS right now, as i dont play anything that uses them.

However once the gouging started and the obvious lack of global units that got me worried, and now with the issues people are having im glad i never bit.

So now im waiting on AMD, my only criteria is must be £650 or less and offer 2080ti performance as i feel that is the benchmark now for that price bracket, i dont care about its ray tracing and lack of DLSS as again nothing i play uses it and i can see it being 1-2 years plus before i need to look at those types of features, that is a long time in the tech world.

AMDs reference cooler looks like it will do a good job. Although you cannot judge performance by looks, the actual design looks decent though.

All that really remains to be seen is prices and performance

 

[KentMan]

The price is an interesting one. If it beats a 3080 by 5% should they charge £200 more and say it smashes the 3090 in value?

I can actually see them doing this unfortunately, however the smarter more disruptive move would be to drop it at £600, they don't have DLSS and ray tracing perf of Nvidia so need to come in cheaper to tempt the current nvidia die hards who chirp on about those features as if they are the 2nd coming of the Lord lol.

a lot of people want AMD to be cheaper so Nvidia drop their prices, i dont think it's going to happen even if AMD are cheaper, Nvidia offer superior features with RTX and DLSS or so they would have you believe, and i think on that basis they wont lower.

However, they set an MRSP, which currently demand inflated, so if they can get enough cards out there 8s potential for their prices to go back to MSRP, although i think we all know its unlikely

 

[Troezar]

I can actually see them doing this unfortunately, however the smarter more disruptive move would be to drop it at £600, they don't have DLSS and ray tracing perf of Nvidia so need to come in cheaper to tempt the current nvidia die hards who chirp on about those features as if they are the 2nd coming of the Lord lol.

a lot of people want AMD to be cheaper so Nvidia drop their prices, i dont think it's going to happen even if AMD are cheaper, Nvidia offer superior features with RTX and DLSS or so they would have you believe, and i think on that basis they wont lower.

However, they set an MRSP, which currently demand inflated, so if they can get enough cards out there 8s potential for their prices to go back to MSRP, although i think we all know its unlikely

Yes, with current demand I can't see AMD undercutting by much. I think they'll try and hoover up some of that early adopter cash first.

 

[RavenXXX2]

Hope that is fake.

https://videocardz.com/newz/newegg-insider-lists-amd-radeon-rx-6000-series-specifications

 

[LePhuronn]

Hope that is fake.

Why?

 

[Nablaoperator]

however the smarter more disruptive move would be to drop it at £600

Just a back of the envelope analysis regarding the pricing of RX6900..

Following are the assumptions:
Die size: 505 mm^2
Wafer size: 70.686 mm^2 (300 mm dia)
Potential die count: 140
Partial dies/no dies at corners: 30%
Available dies: 98 (edit: rounded upto 100)
Defective (lasered) dies: 25%

Expected output per wafer:
Full dies: 75
Lasered dies: 25
per wafer costs approx $10.000 to AMD (read it somewhere in the forum)
add an additional 10% for processing so $11.000

AMD will probably sell full dies at 25% premium to lasered dies while ensuring a gross margin of 50%

75*1.25p+25*p = $22.000
So the cost "p" per lasered die for AIBs will be approx. $185
and the cost per full die will be approx. $230
Now AIBs will target 40% gross margin.. so just the price of the die in BOM is approx. $385
There will be approx 10% of logistics cost on that .. so by the time it reaches distributors the top die would cost $425
Now distributors and retailers will like to make approx 20% commissions on the sale price.. so the suggested price just for the top die would be $530
This is just for the die.. havent factored costs related to PCB/heatsink, etc.
Then there will be taxes over and above that.

 

[Howling]

Why?

Presumably because he doesn't understand the numbers.

 

[BigBANGtheory]

up to 20% extra depending on model

don't hate the player, the 3090 is intended for a very specific customer and 99% of gamers need not apply

Ah yes that is true however things start to get a bit more complex in reality as you also have:
- Linus marketing (not reviewing) 3090 8K gaming to gamers paid for by Nvidia
- Nvidia inhibiting the 3080 with 10GB vram when they could easily have has 12, then giving you 3090 as the vram step up.... for gamers or wait for some nebulous 3080 20GB could be 2021
- Nvidia supply shortages in the Founders particularly, they want their margins they dont want to sell 3080 performance for £650 anymore than an airline wants to sell a ticket for £50

 

[4K8KW10]

Ah yes that is true however things start to get a bit more complex in reality as you also have:
- Linus marketing (not reviewing) 3090 8K gaming to gamers paid for by Nvidia
- Nvidia inhibiting the 3080 with 10GB vram when they could easily have has 12, then giving you 3090 as the vram step up.... for gamers or wait for some nebulous 3080 20GB could be 2021
- Nvidia supply shortages in the Founders particularly, they want their margins they dont want to sell 3080 performance for £650 anymore than an airline wants to sell a ticket for £50

Low margins is better than no margins when there is 0 supply and no available RTX 3000 cards. And when the people will think twice or triple before they buy, vote with your wallets, guys. You are more important than if Mr Leather Jacket has billions to buy for himself everything that he wants.

 

[Sideeffect]

Presumably because he doesn't understand the numbers.

My guess is the 300 watts. That implies that AMD are raising the TDP to compete.

 

[Marak]

Hope that is fake.

https://videocardz.com/newz/newegg-insider-lists-amd-radeon-rx-6000-series-specifications

Videocardz doesn't seem to buy it either:

"Therefore we believe that the specifications listed by Newegg are pure speculation from a contributing writer."

 

[4K8KW10]

Presumably because he doesn't understand the numbers.

lol
RX 6700 XT with 6GB with the same shader count as RX 5700 XT and 50-60% IPC increase is not ok. This is downgrade from the 8GB memory configuration of the RX 5700 XT.

Memory bus throughput also looks too low.

 

[BigBANGtheory]

Low margins is better than no margins when there is 0 supply and no available RTX 3000 cards. And when the people will think twice or triple before they buy, vote with your wallets, guys. You are more important than if Mr Leather Jacket has billions to buy for himself everything that he wants.

who controls the supply though...

low margin vs no margin is the business model for someone selling fruit and veg or clothing that goes out of date in a season. Nvidia want the top price for everything they produce, the last thing they want is to flood the market with powerful GPU hardware at a reasonable price point goes against everything they are about

 

[ICDP]

My guess is the 300 watts. That implies that AMD are raising the TDP to compete.

I don't know because if was to compete then the 6800XT would also have a higher TDP, or risk being irrelevant. Is it possible AMD upped the TDP on the 6900XT so it can beat rather than compete?

 

[gpuerrilla]

a lot of people want AMD to be cheaper so Nvidia drop their prices, i dont think it's going to happen even if AMD are cheaper, Nvidia offer superior features with RTX and DLSS or so they would have you believe, and i think on that basis they wont lower.

Generally you are right, however if you recall the 5600XT release - nvidia swiftly countered (as they knew their milking was neon) by dropping the 2060 price by £50 off the bat. This proves when it matters they probably have a little leeway. I do acknowledge though, if fanboys think by AMD being present it makes their nvidia purchases automatically cheaper they dont quite get the issue. Unless droves of people change mindshare and actually buy AMD gpu's, nvidia wont change their tact. Selfishly hoping you can get a cheaper product from a competitors competition, and never buying the competitor, just causes businesses to go bust. Then you are even worse off as you are left with a monopoly.