AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 27 Sep 2020 at 14:37

If the cache rumours are true,I can see the RX6700XT having a 192 bit memory controller. However,I like modding games,so would need at least 8GB VRAM at qHD. OTH,the important factor would be price,and AFAIK the RTX3060 most likely will also be a 6GB VRAM card too.

BS Dave said:
Your 1080 graph just shows a bunch of 6gb cards beating a future proofed 8gb card. Probably highlighting that you’ll usually run out of grunt before vram. I rarely see VRAM usage higher than 6GB at 1440p on my Titan pascal...

However I wouldn’t buy a 6GB card now even for 1080p.

I think they are pointing out that the RX5600XT despite being faster at 1080p, drops a larger percentage of its performance when you move to 1440p.

Howling · 27 Sep 2020 at 14:58

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
I think they are pointing out that the RX5600XT despite being faster at 1080p, drops a larger percentage of its performance when you move to 1440p.

He is. But the 2060 6GB doesn't have the same drop. Ergo 6GB isn't the issue. It might be the issue specifically for the 5600XT (but with no 8gb 5600XT to compare, it's hard to say for certain), but we can definitely say it's not a general issue.

Kirby Wurm · 27 Sep 2020 at 15:10

Howling said:
He is. But the 2060 6GB doesn't have the same drop. Ergo 6GB isn't the issue. It might be the issue specifically for the 5600XT (but with no 8gb 5600XT to compare, it's hard to say for certain), but we can definitely say it's not a general issue.

The 5700XT doesn't scale quite as well as the 2070 Super so maybe there's a slight bottleneck on the AMD architecture compared to Nvidia's that is then exacerbated by lower VRAM?

4K8KW10 · 27 Sep 2020 at 15:13

Howling said:
it's not a general issue.

It's a general issue and the outcome is that any thinking person will avoid these cards unless they are entry but since you are looking at cards faster than the 8GB RX 5700 XT in VRAM not-limited scenarios, then it's not the case:

BS Dave said:
However I wouldn’t buy a 6GB card now even for 1080p.

+1.

Howling · 27 Sep 2020 at 15:15

4K8KW10 said:
It's a general issue

Even though your own evidence contradicts that statement? Guess we're done here then

humbug · 27 Sep 2020 at 15:24

RavenXXX2 said:
Hope that is fake.

https://videocardz.com/newz/newegg-insider-lists-amd-radeon-rx-6000-series-specifications

I doubt the 6700XT is 6GB, IMO its 12GB.

There will be a 6600XT with a 128Bit bus with 8GB.

All these GPU's will have a large L4 Cache to make up for the lack of memory bandwidth.

Other leaks have the 6700XT at 2.5Ghz, the 6900XT at 2.2Ghz.

Speculation:

5700XT 2560 Shaders @ 1900Mhz.

6700XT 2560 Shaders +10% IPC @ 2500Mhz +31.5% (+41.5% Total) =2080TI after scaling.

6800XT 3840 Shaders +10% IPC, +50% Shaders @ 2350Mhz +23.5% (+83.5 Total) =3080 after scaling.

6900XT 5120 Shaders +10% IPC, +100% Shaders @ 2200Mhz +16% (126% Total) =3090+ after scaling

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 27 Sep 2020 at 15:28

Howling said:
He is. But the 2060 6GB doesn't have the same drop. Ergo 6GB isn't the issue. It might be the issue specifically for the 5600XT (but with no 8gb 5600XT to compare, it's hard to say for certain), but we can definitely say it's not a general issue.

There is an 8GB RX5600XT,its called the RX5700. The only difference is the 192 bit memory controller and 6GB of VRAM on the RX5600XT.

4K8KW10 · 27 Sep 2020 at 15:30

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
There is an 8GB RX5600XT,its called the RX5700. The only difference is the 192 bit memory controller and 6GB of VRAM on the RX5600XT.

That's not true - RX 5600 XT is lower clocked and has 3 MB of L2 cache, while the RX 5700 is higher clocked and with 4 MB L2 cache.

The RX 5600 XT is just an entry to mid-range tier card and is not future proof.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 27 Sep 2020 at 15:36

4K8KW10 said:
That's not true - RX 5600 XT is lower clocked and has 3 MB of L2 cache, while the RX 5700 is higher clocked and with 4 MB L2 cache.

The RX 5600 XT is just an entry to mid-range tier card and is not future proof.

It is the same core,with one of the 64 bit memory controllers disabled,and this is why the L2 cache is 3MB because its tied to the memory controller(1MB per 64 bit partition).It has exactly the same core config of 2304 shaders and 64 ROPs,and in fact it is almost all aftermarket RX5600XT have higher core clockspeeds than the RX5700XT reference GPUs.

Even AMD's pre-launch BIOS,had core clocks merely 5% lower than a reference RX5600XT,but no reference RX5600XT cards were ever widely available. Plenty of the sub £300 RX5700 cards were using the reference cooler.

4K8KW10 · 27 Sep 2020 at 15:37

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
It is the same core,with one of the 64 bit memory controllers disabled,and this is why the L2 cache is 3MB because its tied to the memory controller.It has exactly the same core config,and in fact it is almost all aftermarket RX5600XT have higher core clockspeeds than the RX5700XT reference GPUs.

Even AMD's pre-launch BIOS,had core clocks merely 5% lower than a reference RX5600XT,but no reference RX5600XT cards were ever widely available.

But according to the leak which we all hope to be fake, RX 6800 XT with 12 GB will be Navi 21, while RX 6700 XT with 6 GB will be Navi 23.
3840 shaders vs 2560 shaders.

I think this generation will be complete mess - either 6 or 10 GB or 16 GB or 20/24 GB.
These people at AMD and Nvidia gone in all the extremes and will lose many, many sales.

humbug · 27 Sep 2020 at 15:41

4K8KW10 said:
But according to the leak which we all hope to be fake, RX 6800 XT with 12 GB will be Navi 21, while RX 6700 XT with 6 GB will be Navi 23.
3840 shaders vs 2560 shaders.

I think this generation will be complete mess - either 6 or 10 GB or 16 GB or 20/24 GB.
These people at AMD and Nvidia gone in all the extremes and will lose many, many sales.

It will not be 6GB, it will be 12GB.

4K8KW10 · 27 Sep 2020 at 15:42

humbug said:
It will not be 6GB, it will be 12GB.

I hope so - the golden middle is between 8 and 12/14 GB right now.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 27 Sep 2020 at 15:45

4K8KW10 said:
But according to the leak which we all hope to be fake, RX 6800 XT with 12 GB will be Navi 21, while RX 6700 XT with 6 GB will be Navi 23.
3840 shaders vs 2560 shaders.

If its Navi 23,then its the lowest end of the Navi GPUs,if we believe the rumours of a midrange Navi22. I suspect if it is the same core config as an RX5700XT,it might be possibly push down to be a RX5600XT and RX5500XT replacement,and might be competing against an RTX3060 6GB and RTX3050,or maybe the RX6700XT will be pushed down to under £300??

There is already an RTX3060TI 8GB rumoured,and 4 different Navi21 based models apparently. So I suspect we might have a version of Navi22 or Navi 21 competing with the RTX3060TI and RTX3070,and these will have 8GB/16GB variants. Personally I would want an 8GB GPU at a minimum due to modding games(and I have a qHD monitor),so a 6GB card wouldn't interest me. It might be OK if you run games at 1080p,or don't mind dropping settings down at qHD.

4K8KW10 · 27 Sep 2020 at 15:51

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
If its Navi 23,then its the lowest end of the Navi GPUs,if we believe the rumours of a midrange Navi22. I suspect if it is the same core config as an RX5700XT,it might be possibly push down to be a RX5600XT and RX5500XT replacement,and might be competing against an RTX3060 6GB and RTX3050,or maybe the RX6700XT will be pushed down to under £300??

There is already an RTX3060TI 8GB rumoured,and 4 different Navi21 based models apparently. So I suspect we might have a version of Navi22 or Navi 21 competing with the RTX3060TI and RTX3070,and these will have 8GB/16GB variants. Personally I would want an 8GB GPU at a minimum due to modding games(and I have a qHD monitor),so a 6GB card wouldn't interest me. It might be OK if you run games at 1080p,or don't mind dropping settings down at qHD.

Then it must retail for £170 which again will prove my point - it should be entry level with limited performance in VRAM-limited scenarios which more than anything depend on the developers who like to use more VRAM as a given, and maybe up to RTX 2080 Ti performance if done normally.

gpuerrilla · 27 Sep 2020 at 15:51

chris85oc said:
i’m sorry but wth is this? Selfishly should never exist in a conversation regarding products you buy as a consumer. The companies arent your friends and this pretty much shows your true colors.

I dont think you understand the word then. When the pandemic started, was it not selfish that people filled entire trolleys with toilet roll which meant the store was out of stock and nobody could buy them? By your logic - the conversation existed between product and a consumer, and the consumer is the problem.

Fast forward to last week. How many people got scalped, bots? Is this not selfish too? People buying up cards in bulk as nvidia did not have any rules in place to stop it.

Damn right the companies arent your friend, who said they were? Not me. But going back to point, we have had people on these very forums complain, yes complain, that the reason prices of cards were so high was the competitor was not there in the price bracket. So when cornered on the glass argument of "its brand A's fault" they then went on to admit that they wouldnt buy brand A (even if they had a product that was the same or better) as they prefer brand B, and only want the competition so that brand B is cheaper for THEM!!

Marak said:
People can call that selfish if they want, and I do, but that's not a bad thing. Why shouldn't we be selfish when it comes to spending the wealth we have earned?

Tom|Nbk · 27 Sep 2020 at 16:00

I have a 2080ti but I will definitely jump to AMD if they manage to best 3090 performance. Because at heart im an AMD fanboy and its been too long since I owned one

LePhuronn · 27 Sep 2020 at 16:12

RavenXXX2 said:
mem bandwidth sucks.

I take it you've not been paying attention then. Wide memory bandwidth may not be required this time because of a new cache design.

Navip · 27 Sep 2020 at 16:20

Any rumours of AMD supporting VRR on new cards? I assume they will have HDMI 2.1
I have C9, would like to have options, don't want to be locked to Nvidia only cards, since LG refused to add freesync on 2019 models

james.miller · 27 Sep 2020 at 16:32

LePhuronn said:
I take it you've not been paying attention then. Wide memory bandwidth may not be required this time because of a new cache design.

You're brave, placing faith in a few megabytes of cache to do the job of a wider vram bus. Especially if 'may not be required' is the most concrete evidence you have....

g67575 · 27 Sep 2020 at 16:33

ICDP said:
DLSS, 4K (with TXAA) and FidelityFX compared.

https://www.dsogaming.com/screensho...ative-4k-vs-fidelityfx-upscaling-vs-dlss-2-0/

TXAA still the best option

. Combine with 4k and you are good to go. I know the blurring during movement can drive some people nuts, but the AA is actually pretty effective and quite low cost (why players need to see everything in perfect detail while moving is beyond me, and obviously doesn't reflect reality). In tech terms too, its a superior option.

It's one of the only genuine advantages offered by Nvidia GPUs imo, a shame developers often don't support a non proprietary temporal AA option. Might be enough to convince me to get a RTX 3070.

The video seems to only be available upto 1440p, but still looks good with TXAA, with a lot of aliasing with DLSS enabled.