AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[Zeeflyboy]

. It's one for the FOMO mugs only.

And the 2080Ti wasn't?

Even if you ignore the 3090, you can absolutely bet there will be the equivalent of a 3080Ti/Super this generation... The 3080 is not the 2080Ti replacement in the product stack, it is the 2080 replacement. It does give good performance gains over the 2080Ti so yes it's definitely a viable upgrade from the 2080Ti, but that's not the same as saying it replaces it in the product stack and that it's now a huge price cut. You expect performance per tier to move up in a new generation, some generations more than others. There will be something between the 3080 and 3090, and it will almost certainly hit the $900-1000 msrp mark unless AMD really disrupt things with both price and performance. We have already seen defacto confirmation of the existence of a 3080 with 20Gb for example, talk of a new 103 chip to compete with Navi without having to cut down the more expensive 102 to the 3080 spec etc.

When that extremely likely event happens, and you have a 3080, 3080Ti/S/Plus, and 3090 it will be hard to argue that the 3080 is the 2080Ti replacement no?

There's a reason they compared it to the 2080 in all their official materials - they view it as the 2080 replacement, not a halo card like the 2080Ti was.

 

[Troezar]

A key point in all of this is the 3090 isn't a rebadged Titan. Apparently it didn't have some of the features that made the Titans attractive despite their high price. This leads me to think there won't be a 3080Ti. If for no more reason than there is no gap, performance wise, to place it in. The 3090 is the 3080Ti.

One advantage to AMD in all of this is it enables them to charge more for their cards. If Nvidia are expensive they just need to be slightly less expensive. More money for R&D and more competition further down the line.

AMD are going to price themselves close to Nvidia I think. Maybe a few quid cheaper but if the performance is there don't expect bargain pricing.

I also won't be surprised if Nvidia are working hard to get Ampere2 out the door as fast as they can on an improved process in anticipation of competition.

 

[Richdog]

And the 2080Ti wasn't?

No, in the end the 2080Ti proved the smartest buy of the generation and those who bought one at launch were as happy as larry having the best performance from the beginning until the end of the generation, where it retained around 80% of its value and they sold it with a smile on their face in preparation for Ampere. Or at least, those with good sense did anyway.

When that extremely likely event happens, and you have a 3080, 3080Ti/S/Plus, and 3090 it will be hard to argue that the 3080 is the 2080Ti replacement no?

There's a reason they compared it to the 2080 in all their official materials - they view it as the 2080 replacement, not a halo card like the 2080Ti was.

The 20GB 3080 will still be a 3080, just with more VRAM, and unless they give it a material spec boost in other ways then I wouldn't consider it as in a different performance class.

As for whether Nvidia see the 3080 as a replacement for the 2080 and not the Ti... I don't think I need to repeat my thoughts there as they are no different to what I wrote above and my opinion has not changed in the minutes since I wrote them. Whether you agree or not is by the by.

 

[BigBANGtheory]

AMD are going to price themselves close to Nvidia I think. Maybe a few quid cheaper but if the performance is there don't expect bargain pricing.

I think you are right but that's going to be hard to quantify with different tools/techniques/hardware used for raytracing and upsampling I guess we will know more in a months time

 

[LePhuronn]

In reality and practical terms the 3080 is also a replacement for the 2080Ti...

But it's just not, and no amount of saying black is white will ever make black white. 2080 Ti was top gaming Turing. 3080 is 2nd top gaming Ampere. 3080 is the successor to the 2080.

and this is what all sites are benching and measuring it against.

Yeah, because that's what Nvidia are telling them to do. This is part of "the Ultimate Play" and you're falling for it.

2080Ti owners should be upgrading to the 3080 as the next logical choice

Yeah, there's nothing logical about that statement, my dude.

 

[Troezar]

I think you are right but that's going to be hard to quantify with different tools/techniques/hardware used for raytracing and upsampling I guess we will know more in a months time

Yes it's not apples to apples. The faithful and those tied in will stay with their respective vendor. The undecided will determine the price, if the numbers are low the price will drop. If they fly off the shelves we'll have to pay up

 

[Richdog]

But it's just not, and no amount of saying black is white will ever make black white. 2080 Ti was top gaming Turing. 3080 is 2nd top gaming Ampere. 3080 is the successor to the 2080.

Yeah, because that's what Nvidia are telling them to do. This is part of "the Ultimate Play" and you're falling for it.

Yeah, there's nothing logical about that statement, my dude.

Like I said, I'm happy to agree to fundamentally disagree with you (like I often do with your posts), as you are looking at it from a different and very fixed perspective. Lets not waste any time trying to convince each-other when it doesn't matter whether we do or not.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

The 3080 was called the flagship by the CEO himself. I completely agree that it was a stupid statement but as they have said it is the top end gaming card, that is not debatable.

that means by their own admission the 3080 flagship should go against the previous flagship.

 

[shrek2]

Theres more talk about Nvidia in this thread than Navi...
Bizarre

 

[RavenXXX2]

Soon!

 

[LePhuronn]

The 3080 was called the flagship by the CEO himself. I completely agree that it was a stupid statement but as they have said it is the top end gaming card, that is not debatable.

that means by their own admission the 3080 flagship should go against the previous flagship.

A fair shout, but I'd counter that argument with people buying Kepler, Maxwell and Pascal Titans for gaming. Uncle leather Jacket can sing until he's blue in the face that a 3080 is the flagship, it's just not true because the 3090 is a Geforce-branded card and therefore is the top of the gaming stack.

 

[Besty]

I think you are right but that's going to be hard to quantify with different tools/techniques/hardware used for raytracing and upsampling I guess we will know more in a months time

The cult marketing campaign has already started though, you can see it on this thread already - 'no answer to DLSS 2.0', 'ray tracing superior on Nvidia because: reasons'. Its all down to the fact that Nvidia feeds this machine, lapped up by the faithful and then spewed out all across social media, it is quite remarkable to see.

We won't see what happens with pricing until the first week/2nd week in February, nobody discounts brand new, hot products at Christmas, not even AMD.

My hand will be firmly clenched in my wallet until then and we have a full roundup of all the first-party and AIB card's plus PCB tear-downs and a catalogue of power limits, phase counts and ram chip manufacturers.

 

[Richdog]

The 3080 was called the flagship by the CEO himself. I completely agree that it was a stupid statement but as they have said it is the top end gaming card, that is not debatable.

that means by their own admission the 3080 flagship should go against the previous flagship.

Also an excellent point that I neglected to mention... they said themselves it's the flagship card. The comparison to the 2080 was purely for marketing purposes in their launch presentations to make their performance increase look larger, they manipulated that to their advantage. In real terms, unofficial but obvious, it also replaces the 2080 Ti and is a logical upgrade for those owners too (even if they wait for a 20GB version).

The 3090 is a pure marketing gimmick to promote this faux-8k-class BS that no-one in their right mind is falling for and this is reflected in that they are not pushing it seriously.

Theres more talk about Nvidia in this thread than Navi...
Bizarre

Ok, can you please go and find some Navi info for everyone to talk about that we haven't seen yet?

 

[LePhuronn]

Theres more talk about Nvidia in this thread than Navi...
Bizarre

Only because the Nvidia discussion is currently appropriate (tier positioning and prices) and there's nothing new Navi-wise to chew on.

 

[LePhuronn]

Also an excellent point that I neglected to mention... they said themselves it's the flagship card.

As I commented above, it is a sound point, but it is also marketing obfuscation again. Tell me, if Uncle Jensen describes the Hopper RTX 4070 as the flagship, despite there being a 4080 and 4090 too, would you just accept it? What makes the 4070 the flagship when there are better cards available? Also, there is certainly a price gap (not necessarily a performance gap) that can support a 20GB 3080 or 3080 Ti. If Nvidia drop that, does the 3080 still remain the flagship just because Jensen named it as such?

"Flagship gaming card" is marketing semantics, and part of this insidiously genius campaign.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

As I commented above, it is a sound point, but it is also marketing obfuscation again. Tell me, if Uncle Jensen describes the Hopper RTX 4070 as the flagship, despite there being a 4080 and 4090 too, would you just accept it? What makes the 4070 the flagship when there are better cards available? Also, there is certainly a price gap (not necessarily a performance gap) that can support a 20GB 3080 or 3080 Ti. If Nvidia drop that, does the 3080 still remain the flagship just because Jensen named it as such?

"Flagship gaming card" is marketing semantics, and part of this insidiously genius campaign.

Like I said I agree it was a stupid statement but it's clear they don't want the 3090 seen as a gaming card and "Flagship" is a clearly defined statement in product terms. He called it that and therefore it should be treated as such, even if it is clear that he was making up nonsense.

Comparing this generation's "flagship" to a previous generation non-flagship at the announcement was the first warning to me that they are concerned about competition and desperate to shine the absolute best light on the product possible.

 

[gpuerrilla]

That is not even remotely true, unless you believe the marketing. The 3090 is the top Geforce RTX SKU, this replaces the 2080 Ti. The 3080 is the 2nd Geforce RTX SKU, it replaces the 2080. There is literally no argument to the contrary. And in both cases the actual sale price of these cards has increased again over Turing. And to say that the 3080 is such "good value" compared to the 2080 Ti just cements how good an obfuscation and hype job Nvidia have done for Ampere.. but the 2080 Ti should never have been £1,200 in the first place.

It is literally this simple:
Top RTX Geforce SKU for Turing: 2080 Ti, £1,200+
Top RTX Geforece SKU for Ampere: 3090, £1,400+

Nvidia have successfully raised the price again.

I genuinely don't know how you don't see this. It is clear as day, beyond obvious.

Agree.

The 3080 is a good card at £650. But very few people are getting £650 cards any time soon. People are likely paying £800+

Correct.

 

[jonneymendoza]

I also won't be surprised if Nvidia are working hard to get Ampere2 out the door as fast as they can on an improved process in anticipation of competition.

Ampere 2? aka 4000 series? thats not on the horizon until 2022....

 

[LePhuronn]

I also won't be surprised if Nvidia are working hard to get Ampere2 out the door as fast as they can on an improved process in anticipation of competition.

You can't jump nodes from different companies without a lot of redesign. Ampere as a general arch does exist on TSMC 7nm for the big-ass A100 compute card, but how much of the GA gaming die exists purely on Sammy 8nm? GA10x is staying on Samsung, gaming Ampere is not seeing a better node.

 

[gpuerrilla]

The cult marketing campaign has already started though, you can see it on this thread already - 'no answer to DLSS 2.0', 'ray tracing superior on Nvidia because: reasons'. Its all down to the fact that Nvidia feeds this machine, lapped up by the faithful and then spewed out all across social media, it is quite remarkable to see.

Ahh never a truer word spoken!