EV general discussion

[Jez]

Been convinced to try an EV so should be picking up my new toy on Monday, a used 120Ah i3.
Any advice on preparing for and owning? I was going to look at Podpoint for the wall charger and see they have a few options (kw) and tethered or untethered options. If I get untethered I assume I just use the BMW cable provided? the car comes with a 3 pin cable and 11kw public charge cable. Or is it better to get go with Tethered?
I assume most change to an EV friendly energy tariff? With Bulb still at the moment and saw something recently about them coming up with a new tariff soon for EV owners.

Ive decided after some deliberation (and discussion with a colleague with an i3 who does this) to keep the charger portable, and just chuck a 16A commando onto the existing feed at my garage. This will vary for everyone but the route to get 32A out there is just too hard to consider for me at the moment, as my CU is central to my recently renovated house.

https://evonestop.co.uk/products/type-2-portable-mode-2-16amp-commando-3pin-evse-charger-10a-16a-5m

Quite an easy option as you can just run this off existing, and also means that you can move the charger easily between locations should you so wish.

They also do 32A chargers like this too, obviously requiring a 32A commando and circuit though.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

It’s an interesting one if you come from CU. I was surprised with mine, used the tails in the meter cabinet with a Henley block and 32A RCD in there so the 6mm cable just comes out the bottoms, no drilling through walls etc and means the two circuits are separate. I think this strictly isn’t allowed as the DNO own the box , but anyway theguy said they also left enough space for the smart meter installing suggesting the installers would moan regardless. He came to today and was very complimentary how neat the work was.

infact he’s a bit miffed since moving to Octopus as he’s not used to the warm greeting from EV owners, he’s used to smart meters being forces on people who reluctantly antlt agree and think it’s part of big brother

 

[Jez]

Yeah sadly not an option for me either that one, the meter is with the CU in a utility room which is central to the house. As i understand it, strictly an EV charger circuit should break out of the tails as yours does, but its one and the same for me unfortunately as they are located together.

I quite like the idea of just using a commando at least at first, i can chuck one into the existing (2.5mm fed) garage without breaking any regs or doing much work, and keep the charger portable to use at other locations too. This means that i could in theory chuck a 16A commando into other houses too, and charge with reasonable speed in those locations. (Plus take the charger with me easily if we move, etc).

A better long term option for me (if i were to have a couple of higher powered EVs, which i guess is the future we will end up at) would be to get another feed from the pole spanned to the garage, and have a separate EV supply in there. This would also save overloading the 100A at the house which is already stressed with our heating system etc. Added benefit there being the ability to choose separate tariffs for the garage and house to suit the load times of each.

 

[ShiWarrior]

for the people that has a Lexus CT200H or understands the trim levels..

Keep looking thorough AutoTrader and i thought "LED Headlights" where only available on the F-Sport (option) or the Premier (standard) on the facelift 2014 on ?

I found some "Advance" and "Luxury" spec one that under specs, safety say "LED headlights with halogen high beam" (im aware you get Halogen high beams with the LEDs)

Can you spec LEDs as an option on these ?
i cant see any washer jets though..

 

[WJA96]

i cant see any washer jets though..

LEDs and Xenons with light outputs under 2000 lumens don’t need washers.

 

[WJA96]

A better long term option for me (if i were to have a couple of higher powered EVs, which i guess is the future we will end up at) would be to get another feed from the pole spanned to the garage, and have a separate EV supply in there. This would also save overloading the 100A at the house which is already stressed with our heating system etc. Added benefit there being the ability to choose separate tariffs for the garage and house to suit the load times of each.

If you bring in a separate supply, bring in all 3 phases then you get 22kW per hour of charge capacity. Ah! You say, my car only charges at 11kW per hour maximum. Yes, I say. 11kW per hour is still 50% faster than 7.4kW per hour so a 20-80% charge takes 3.5 hours vs. 5.1 hours on 7.4kW per hour. And if you have two cars both of them can charge at 11kW per hour. Which might not sound that vital until you remember that on most of the really cheap tariffs you only get 4 hours at the ultra-cheap rate so to charge two cars within that timeframe you need three-phase electricity.

And if you have an eTron, Taycan or new (MY22) Model S you can charge at the full 22kW per hour charge rate. Which you’ll need because the batteries are big and those cars are relatively inefficient.

 

[ShiWarrior]

LEDs and Xenons with light outputs under 2000 lumens don’t need washers.

thanks for the info, i did not realise this
so why does the premier model have washers and the others dont ?

 

[Basher]

Hi - that’s close to me, I’m in Redditch.
I’ve been using the BP Pulse charger at Kings Court Hotel on the A435 (just outside of Alcester). Could meet you there on Saturday afternoon if you wanted a look around the Polestar 2?

Sweet, thanks man.

This weekend is a bit tricky, but let me drop you a line separately. TBH I think I'm pretty set on the P2, but want to drive the M3LR first (on Sunday).

Just a bit of negative equity on my Audi to sort out, so don't know whether to bite the bullet and just get on with it.

£375 a month for a P2 with Performance, Nappa leather, insurance, tax, servicing etc just seems to good to pass on.

 

[glenimp617]

Sweet, thanks man.

This weekend is a bit tricky, but let me drop you a line separately. TBH I think I'm pretty set on the P2, but want to drive the M3LR first (on Sunday).

Just a bit of negative equity on my Audi to sort out, so don't know whether to bite the bullet and just get on with it.

£375 a month for a P2 with Performance, Nappa leather, insurance, tax, servicing etc just seems to good to pass on.

I'd be very tempted at that price. The only thing which would make me think twice is the android software. I'm a big google fan, but would I trust it in a car.

 

[Jez]

If you bring in a separate supply, bring in all 3 phases then you get 22kW per hour of charge capacity. Ah! You say, my car only charges at 11kW per hour maximum. Yes, I say. 11kW per hour is still 50% faster than 7.4kW per hour so a 20-80% charge takes 3.5 hours vs. 5.1 hours on 7.4kW per hour. And if you have two cars both of them can charge at 11kW per hour. Which might not sound that vital until you remember that on most of the really cheap tariffs you only get 4 hours at the ultra-cheap rate so to charge two cars within that timeframe you need three-phase electricity.

And if you have an eTron, Taycan or new (MY22) Model S you can charge at the full 22kW per hour charge rate. Which you’ll need because the batteries are big and those cars are relatively inefficient.

This will be how a lot of households may need to go if we all end up at 100% EV. A lot of larger households will be forced to bring another completely separate feed to the garages from the pole. If you think of a family house which might have 2-3-4 car garages (combination of childrens cars, etc) then switch all of these often large 4x4 cars to EV, then you may end up with one hell of a charging demand.

 

[jpaul]

They struggle and it isnt intended, but it is there if you need it which is the crucial thing. On a flat highway the video above shows it in full detail with his battery going to 0% and the car slowing down. He manages to maintain 125KMH (watch it from 0:50, the battery miles are in blue on the dash)

subsequerntly thought that rex is delivering about 40KW/hr, tesla uses about 15Kw/hr in average use , so the rex 34bhp rex should cover that,
it is just any need for additional power where you could be caught short.

It looks like people pay a preimum for rex, versus a more recent rexless i3s with a 42kw battery over the older 33. ... which I find incongruous.
it has fast charging after all.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

This will be how a lot of households may need to go if we all end up at 100% EV. A lot of larger households will be forced to bring another completely separate feed to the garages from the pole. If you think of a family house which might have 2-3-4 car garages (combination of childrens cars, etc) then switch all of these often large 4x4 cars to EV, then you may end up with one hell of a charging demand.

There cant be that many houses where everyone is doing 200 miles per day though, the average mileges (total) and commutes just dont even remotely support that

Yes sure there will be some outliers where you have 4 people doing reps jobs or consultants or something, but to balance them out there will be many cars that dont even need a weekly charge

 

[b0rn2sk8]

There cant be that many houses where everyone is doing 200 miles per day though, the average mileges (total) and commutes just dont even remotely support that

Yes sure there will be some outliers where you have 4 people doing reps jobs or consultants or something, but to balance them out there will be many cars that dont even need a weekly charge

I was just going to post this, the average mileage is under 9k now or less than 25 miles per day.

25 miles is just over 7kw for most reasonable EVs achieving 3.5 miles per kwh or greater. I think any current EV could regain that charge in under 90 mins unless you hammer it everywhere.

What will be the challenge is that most households will not have 4 off street car parking spaces with access to power.

 

[Jez]

There cant be that many houses where everyone is doing 200 miles per day though, the average mileges (total) and commutes just dont even remotely support that

Yes sure there will be some outliers where you have 4 people doing reps jobs or consultants or something, but to balance them out there will be many cars that dont even need a weekly charge

Fair, i guess most cars do sit around doing nothing most of the time so will never really need much of a charge top-up despite their big batteries.

 

[Jez]

It looks like people pay a preimum for rex, versus a more recent rexless i3s with a 42kw battery over the older 33. ... which I find incongruous.
it has fast charging after all.

I dont find that surprising at all, i wouldn't consider the non REX model personally. Fast charging is absolutely no substitute for the engine. A substitute for the engine is a massive battery as found in a Tesla or similar.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Fair, i guess most cars do sit around doing nothing most of the time so will never really need much of a charge top-up despite their big batteries.

Yeah its kind of an option if you go EV, do you charge every day, even though that may be just say 10Kwh, or when you need say 50% or more
A lot will depend on usage patterns, pricing of tariffs (eg are you on one with fixed cheap hours, or even one that dips negative per unit at times), how many cars per charger in the house etc

I think the more important thing will be that wider ownership need wider recharging. If the places you are taking you car to have wide recharging available there is far less demand for it at home. No one fills their car up with petrol at home now.
Its convenient for some to charge up at home, and cheaper, but its not necessarily the optimum strategy for the country. For the reasons of charge capacity as a really obvious one.

If for example, every gym, supermarket, shopping centre car park, cinema complex etc etc was fully charge point enabled. Companies with car parks encouraged (via less tax for putting in charging or more tax if they dont have charging) to put in charging etc the need for most people ie those doing average mileage for sure but probably upto what 20something k per year would have no need to charge at home the vast majority of the time.

I think the midset of I have to charge at home needs to shift and a key pat of that and IMO the one the government should be doing is funding far more public chargers. (just give grants to local authorities and businesses)
Right now the mindset is probably right, I will probably need to charge at home, they need to get that to, its inconvenient that I cant take advantage of charging at home, but its no biggie as public charging is just everywhere.

 

[WJA96]

thanks for the info, i did not realise this
so why does the premier model have washers and the others dont ?

It might have matrix LEDs, which require self-leveling and washers.

 

[jpaul]

I dont find that surprising at all, i wouldn't consider the non REX model personally. Fast charging is absolutely no substitute for the engine. A substitute for the engine is a massive battery as found in a Tesla or similar.

ok - horses for courses -
42kw battery 180 mile range .. and maybe a heat pump, plus bev categorisation for london use.
vs 33Kw 120 with rex
maybe there is no longer budget equivalence there, though, the newer traction control also remains interesting.

 

[lordrobs]

I think the midset of I have to charge at home needs to shift and a key pat of that and IMO the one the government should be doing is funding far more public chargers. (just give grants to local authorities and businesses)
Right now the mindset is probably right, I will probably need to charge at home, they need to get that to, its inconvenient that I cant take advantage of charging at home, but its no biggie as public charging is just everywhere.

I'd say the best chance the country has for mass adoption will be to encourage as many people as possible to charge at home if they can. If you can encourage individual households to personally spend hundreds on getting a charger installed at home which they then rely on for 90% of their charging then the government has far less ground to cover in terms of public charging infrastructure to support the wider roll out.

Ultimately this is easy to steer by cost. I've never filled my car at a motorway services because of the increased cost of fuel there. At the same time I'd happily stick £20 in at an inflated price rather than risk running out. Likewise when I'm eventually driving an EV I assume I'll only charge as much is needed when paying for the convenience of location and speed and fill up where its most cost effective, which I assume will be at home with the car picking when its best to do so to ensure I've got my chosen level of charge by the following morning.

People without off street parking will need to be helped and controlled in the same way that they currently are with parking. So for example, in Norwich, like most cities we have zoned permit parking. Those zones may also become zoned parking and charging. Or your parking permit buys you ##kWh at charge points in the area.

Whatever the case home charging is an easy win for a government trying to encourage mass EV adoption as it is almost zero effort on their part. All they really need to do is incentivise it.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Is 180 miles realistic from an i3 with a 42kwh battery?

I thought the 33kwh Rex version got just under 100 in the real world, the Rex always kicks in at 6% because it needs an energy buffer to level out spikes in power demand.