Road Cycling
- Thread starter FrenchTart
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Both are very expensive bikes that are still built in Taiwan/China and have a larger mark-up due to a name on the side of them.
It's just a carbon bike frame with some bearings, a few wireless bits and hoses here and there, then some hubs (with more bearings), carbons hoops & spokes, handlebar and some spinny groupset bits.
£6.5-9k for either of those is a bit of a rip off in my eyes.
Take a look at an Orro Venturi, you can pick on up with Di2 for around £3.5k and you still get an aero road bike with Di2. Throw another £600-800 at some decent carbon wheels (Light Bicycle AR56) and you'll have the equivalent bike along with £2.5-5k still happily in your bank account.
I've got a Rondo HVRT which is also a great bike, but it is more of a dual purpose Aero road bike that also does gravel as it fits 650b wheels.
Completely agree! You'd stand out against all the MAMILs with their custom SL7 down at a Richmond Park gathering.
You would be the laughing stock
That was my point about the crazy cost.
Totally. 2020-2021 has really upped the ante on prices and they're now just getting a bit silly.
Clearance bikes or those from smaller manufacturers are the sweet spot these days.
I was really tempted by the Orro, but the deal I got on the Rondo was too good to miss out on. Plus I know have some sexy 650b wheels to take off the beaten track, once the weather allows it.
I checked out the bikes mentioned in you post yesterday.
They look good and have decent specs but in terms of the Rondo HVRT the saving isn't all that much over a Canyon Di2 : This link has the bike priced at £5.3k (£900 saving on the Aeroad) and you need to add 650b wheels to make the most of the gravel bike ability.
https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Ro...TF_6mO3jU69HjHsnk68aAoM3EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
So, I won a Ridgeback Advance 5.0 cyclocross frame on eBay which has just arrived.
Need to work out the headset size but, it’s looking like 1 1/4 inch which seems rare/odd.
Plan is to take some bits of my Giant Defy and have a do it all/gravel bike until I have a bit more storage and build the giant back up.
Need to work out the headset size but, it’s looking like 1 1/4 inch which seems rare/odd.
Plan is to take some bits of my Giant Defy and have a do it all/gravel bike until I have a bit more storage and build the giant back up.
Has there been a change of road salting strategy (Cambridgehire) , I've never seen the commuter chain (sram/nick) getting rusted up so quickly,
was out there this morning lubing the chain finish line dry, before the off;
it's like they have added detergent (rather than molasses say)
was out there this morning lubing the chain finish line dry, before the off;
it's like they have added detergent (rather than molasses say)
Funny you should say that and I mentioned that last week... On the weekend my other half asked 'can you take a look at my bike it's making noises. As I've not been commuting I've really neglected hers for the past month or so... Chain was dry as a bone due to the salt obviously around and the rain we've had. Ooops!
Needless to say it's quite a bit better now, a good scrub with some degreaser, rinsed, wiped down, GT85's and scrubbed more, then lubed up. I'll take another pic this lunchtime if you want to compare.
Haha I've not heard anything about him for a while, didn't he get taken to court for abuse or something and then beaten up? Them vegans be an angry bunch. Although did like the way he called out some manufacturers over things - like that!Canyon seat post - You can image what Durian Rider has said about this design
I mean what is the point on putting that much complication into a design. Yes it looks a good way to shave off a couple of grams of excess carbon, but it's always going to jam/break/go wrong in a few years time...
Nope. Unless looking at second hand and able to snag a 'lockdown bargain' someone paid top dollar for, rode for 10 months and is now selling as the weather got a little cold and they've gone off cycling...
Sweet! Enjoy!I've got an Emonda SLR7 on order - fortunately from Nov 20 before the price bump(s). I may, if I'm lucky, see it around the end of April.
The grooves in the frame you talk about are the ones within the BB shell? I thought they'd fixed that by now? Several iterations of the Madone since it first started to appear and get reported...
Same as the Orro then
Designed in the UK, manufactured in random chinese carbon frame factories, rather than the companies 'own' factories in China (like most big name brands). So QC will probably be lower and with a few compromises. Development years behind bikes from the top manufacturers (like the Trek, possibly the Canyon). There's a reason Orro frames don't stand out - they're 'standard' frame shapes and profiles you'll see across the middle part of the aero bike market. They're not 'open mould' frames as such, but a few steps above. If you're going that route you'll get a comparable budget bike from Canyon with arguably a better supported frame (with 6 years warranty!?) which is probably more aero and faster.
Yes Orro is all around being designed in Ditching, Surrey. But the frames are made the same place as Merlin/Ribble/Planet X, shipped back over to the UK and assembled in Surrey. I hope that does mean you'll get good support with them and reasonable shipping estimates. Probably better and more accurate than Canyon.
But you have missed the point a little - once you're spending that sort of money (or as much on the frames from Trek/Specialized) then budget and 'value for money' are not the highest concerns. You're paying a bunch of money for all the R&D that's gone into the design before manufacture, not the actual 'cost' of what it's taken to produce. But you're getting all that technology and development which a company like Orro (and maybe even Canyon) can't afford to do themselves. They'll always be 'chasing' those big manufacturers.
The similar spec Orro is £4600 - https://www.orrobikes.com/shop/2021-venturi-sram-force-etap
Put the same wheels on it as the Canyon £2000 - https://www.wiggle.co.uk/zipp-404-firecrest-carbon-tl-disc-wheelset-shimano
And the AXS power meter £858 - https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Quarq/SRAM-Red-AXS-Power-Meter/LM05
And suddenly the £7000 Canyon isn't sounding that far off the mark - https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road-bikes/race-bikes/aeroad/aeroad-cf-slx-8-disc-etap/2772.html
There's no point doing that with the Trek (or the Tarmac). We all know they're more expensive (than just the cost of components)
Not meaning to dig, just level things with you while I'm stuck on a webinar all morning
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2004
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- 10,648
This year has been absolutely terrible for chains going rusty.
Something has changed grit wise IMO.
Something has changed grit wise IMO.
Yeah, their current prices are not much of a saving, that's why I didn't recommend it unfortunately.
I got a standard 105 version (CF2) and the Mrs got a Di2 one with fancy carbon wheels (CF1) from Wiggle for an incredible price. I wouldn't buy them at current prices on Sigma.
Lots of 'probably' in there and assumptions
Can you prove these bikes costing silly money are actually faster and more aero?
Can you prove their carbon fibre construction is better? Be it stiffness in tests and real usage or actual independent aero date from a wind tunnel?
This is the main issue with these bikes and components........... Perceived quality, where they cost soo much, therefore they must be better? I can draw parallels with Hi-Fi Audiophile industry here, especially in the way these can be reviewed by publications where advertising plays a part and hype comes out where this year's bike is '4.189% MOAR FASTER WITH WATTS SAVED', when in actual fact that's some manufacturer's biased random test in a specific environment or direction on a perfectly flat roller or inside wind tunnel, that doesn't reflect the real world outside
Edited for a little more accuracy
Anyone who spends £2000 on some carbon wheels with a ZIPP badge has a screw loose
You can get incredible wheels from the likes of the well regarded Light Bicycle or Farsports, where you don't pay for a badge, but exceptional quality and good service (notwithstanding the geographical difference)!
As an example https://www.lightbicycle.com/700C-G...eels---30mm-wide-and-tubeless-compatible.html
There's also a nice Aero Data test showing the real difference between wheelsets that most have probably seen (Hambini).
Mental! I'd much rather have a nice set of Favero Assioma power pedals, at least you can move those between bikes rather than needing expensive crank arm meters on all your bikes.
Not meaning to dig, just level things with you while I'm stuck on a webinar all morning
Not taken as a dig at all, I just like to highlight all the crap and overpriced bull**** we see in the industry these days.
I'll be chasing marginal gains like anyone when I'm on my TT bike (I'm really not that fast in the grand scheme of things), but it actually matters far more for a TT than it does for group rides and cycles around the Surrey countryside chasing Strava KOMs.
People can
Did it come with the fork? The normal 1 1/8 inch measurement is the diameter of the steerer tube from the fork the frame won't actually have that size/measurement anywhere. Looks like it has an integrated headset so maybe something like 44mm inside diameter of the head tube?
didn’t come with the fork unfortunately. My other idea is to try my other bikes fork in it to see if it fits. Assuming that I will know based on that?
I'm sure it'll be 1 1/8 inch then so pretty much any modern fork will fit.
The headset goes between the fork steerer and the frame so the inside diameter for the headset will be 1 1/8 inch and the outer diameter will be the inside diameter of the frame. There's a calculator thingy here to help: https://www.fsaeasyheadset.com/
The headset goes between the fork steerer and the frame so the inside diameter for the headset will be 1 1/8 inch and the outer diameter will be the inside diameter of the frame. There's a calculator thingy here to help: https://www.fsaeasyheadset.com/
thanks for this. I’m still struggling to workout what I need. Do I need to work out the angle of the cups as well?
No, but can you prove that they're not!?Lots of 'probably' in there and assumptions
Can you prove these bikes costing silly money are actually faster and more aero?
Can you prove their carbon fibre construction is better? Be it stiffness in tests and real usage or actual independent aero date from a wind tunnel?
You know full well you can't... Lots of assumptions in there but trying to read through the marketing is an absolute waste of time - as you will agree! There's been multiple writeups and real world data comparing these bikes by (mostly)independent reviewers. Certainly for the better and well known brands. Obviously info for the 'popular' and big name brands/frames/models is much easier to find than info on the lesser ones, like that Orro!
Road.cc is a great place to generally start (congrats the Orro appears in the 'fastest aero bikes of 2021 list'), but even trying to draw comparisons on there between 2 different reviewers perceptions on 2 different bikes is impossible. You need the same guys and probably directly comparing the two on the same day, riding the same route. You're more likely to get opinions on an Orro review comparing it to the Madone, than the other way around (as more people will have ridden the Madone). So again you have to make assumptions and read into things yourself - as it's highly unlikely you'll find a shop with both of those bikes available for you to test ride together!
Yeah the Hambini tests are the only other place I've seen those LightBicycle (Falcon) wheels actually mentioned... They don't seem to appear many other places. They come out the same as the Zipp 404 in the tests, respectable, but also a 5 year old wheelset from Zipp.Anyone who spends £2000 on some carbon wheels with a ZIPP badge has a screw loose
You can get incredible wheels from the likes of the well regarded Light Bicycle or Farsports, where you don't pay for a badge, but exceptional quality and good service (notwithstanding the geographical difference)!
As an example https://www.lightbicycle.com/700C-G...eels---30mm-wide-and-tubeless-compatible.html
There's also a nice Aero Data test showing the real difference between wheelsets that most have probably seen (Hambini).
So find some comparisons of the 2016 404 vs the current 404 Firestrike Disk and you might actually get a good comparison between those £2000 wheels (and lets face it, that's a crazy price, but we're not talking value for money here) and those £800 Falcons (using a fairly 'average' build on them to give a rough weight count within 150g of the 404). They seem good on 'paper', but you need to hunt around some forums to get feedback from owners. There are far more reviews and info online about the Zipp 404 (1.4m google search results), than the Falcon (32,000).
Not the point I was making. The Canyon comes with a power meter, the Orro doesn't. You have to get the specs as close as possible before you can compare pricing enough between them, agreed?
Oh there is, no 2 ways about it. The whole bicycle industry is built around marketing/snake oil/distorted own test data and perceived values. It's more fickle than many others because of all the standards and 'insider' stuff that goes on across the whole industry just to sell their product over competition.
But I didn't come here to argue (nor did you!), just some good discussion and to offer our opinions. I'm quite liking the look of that Orro now I've read the road.cc review... Although it does look very much like the Aeroad & SystemSix doesn't it!? Must be the rear wheel cutout and colours it's in. But again to me that's why bikes like the Madone stand out a little more. Yes they're from a big name brand, so you'll see them around. But that does mean you're far more likely to find information about them/find one to ride/a second hand bargain on one/a LBS with one you can actually test ride and buy/more savings over RRP to actually get a 'good deal'.
The idea behind the design is the seat tube flexes to improve comfort. The issue is that the seat tube is flexing/moving inside the frame so you can imagine what is happening - carbon rubbing against carbon
. Canyon have acknowledge the issue and have confirmed they are working on a fix which will also be issued to current owners.
I'm in the Canyon FB group and every owner is experiencing seat tube wear, this is one of the worst looking tubes, from an owner who rode about 300km and then checked it.
Nope - the bolt fits against the lower section.
This wear occurs where the seat post enters the frame on the left side, as shown in this diagram.