Nvidia Has a Driver Overhead Problem, GeForce vs Radeon on Low-End CPUs

Disco_P · 12 Mar 2021 at 18:03

andybird123 said:
You're suggesting it's a realistic situation that someone with a 1600x is going to buy an RTX 3090 (at all) and then play games at medium/low settings at 1080p?

Isn't it common knowledge that pairing low end CPU's with high-end GPU's is going to cause a massive bottleneck anyway?

The "problem" was also much less pronounced on Intel, so are we sure the problem is being caused by Nvidia?

It's also maybe only one or two games, how many games did they test and how many games had this problem... A quick search suggests these guys are pretty well known for clickbait

I have a 5820K with a 3080 and I play games at medium/high settings at 1440p to get the best FPS.

A CPU upgrade would cost the best part of £500.

It's a problem.

Your searching skills leave a lot to be desired if you think these guys do clickbait.

Chuk_Chuk · 12 Mar 2021 at 18:05

andybird123 said:
Isn't it common knowledge that pairing low end CPU's with high-end GPU's is going to cause a massive bottleneck anyway?

Out of curiosity, do you buy a new CPU everytime you buy a new GPU?

andybird123 said:
The "problem" was also much less pronounced on Intel, so are we sure the problem is being caused by Nvidia?

Did you actually watch the video?
The "problem" wasn't seen while using AMD GPUs, when paired with either intel or AMD CPUs. I would like to hear your theory as to why it isn't a Nvidia problem.

andybird123 said:
It's also maybe only one or two games, how many games did they test and how many games had this problem... A quick search suggests these guys are pretty well known for clickbait

Click bait doesn't mean they are lying or stretching the truth in the content of the video itself. Which is what you seem to be trying to imply by bring it up when put in context with the rest of your post.

Clickbait means that there is a huge discrepancy between the video title and the video content

oldestgregg · 12 Mar 2021 at 18:15

Disco_P said:
I have a 5820K with a 3080 and I play games at medium/high settings at 1440p to get the best FPS.

A CPU upgrade would cost the best part of £500.

It's a problem.

Your searching skills leave a lot to be desired if you think these guys do clickbait.

Obviously this is a problem Nvidia need to address but Id be curious how many people are like yourself and buy the super high end GPU's but don't have at least a bi-annual CPU upgrade top go with it. Speaking from a personal viewpoint I buy the highest end GPU every-time they come out and upgrade CPU every other year.

HRL · 12 Mar 2021 at 19:00

Nexus18 said:
There's plenty of people still on 2xxx ryzen chips with 3080/3090s too.

It's also an issue at 1440p....

Until I can get a 5600x for MSRP, I won't be upgrading my 2600 so until then, my 3080 is being choked big time unless I am playing at 4k on my oled or/and nvidia "can" fix it...... But for them to really take notice, we need more youtubers to do videos and call this out.

AMD got a lot of **** for their dx 11 etc. overhead (which was nowhere as bad in recent years) so the same needs to be done to nvidia especially considering these low level apis are the future.

But as usual, AMD always get **** for anything driver related where as nvidia can do no wrong.

2700X and 3090FE here until my 5950X finally arrives. Only game at 4K though.

wunkley · 12 Mar 2021 at 19:16

Using x99 and intel 5930k (OC'd to 4.4ghz) with a 3090FE here. I game at 4k 60Hz and 3440x1440 up to 90Hz. I've yet to see any game that has any sort of cpu limitation/ bottleneck for my needs.
Apart from maybe flight sim 2020 but I think that's just all over the place at the moment in terms of performance, regardless of hardware.

Someone convince me that I need to update my CPU and motherboard??

ltron · 12 Mar 2021 at 19:37

andybird123 said:
You're suggesting it's a realistic situation that someone with a 1600x is going to buy an RTX 3090 (at all) and then play games at medium/low settings at 1080p?

Isn't it common knowledge that pairing low end CPU's with high-end GPU's is going to cause a massive bottleneck anyway?

The "problem" was also much less pronounced on Intel, so are we sure the problem is being caused by Nvidia?

It's also maybe only one or two games, how many games did they test and how many games had this problem... A quick search suggests these guys are pretty well known for clickbait

This is happening on a 3070 too, even a weak 5600XT is outperforming it. You know that eSports players play at low resolutions and settings to maximise framerates, right? Who do you think the Nvidia Gsync 1080P 360Hz monitors are marketed at?

ltron · 12 Mar 2021 at 19:38

wunkley said:
Using x99 and intel 5930k (OC'd to 4.4ghz) with a 3090FE here. I game at 4k 60Hz and 3440x1440 up to 90Hz. I've yet to see any game that has any sort of cpu limitation/ bottleneck for my needs.
Apart from maybe flight sim 2020 but I think that's just all over the place at the moment in terms of performance, regardless of hardware.

Someone convince me that I need to update my CPU and motherboard??

It's a DX12 problem only (not sure about Vulkan).

CuriousTomCat · 12 Mar 2021 at 20:25

Is it a coincidence that AMD released this yesterday?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E8d4jJ4PwQ

Phixsator · 12 Mar 2021 at 21:27

humbug said:
A similar test was done years ago where it was AMD drivers that had a higher overhead than Nvidia's.

It seems AMD listened and put the work in, now the tables have turned.

Now its your turn to sort this mess out Nvidia, 20 to 30% of my CPU just to drive your bloated mess drivers is bloody ridiculous, it was only about 5% when AMD had the higher overhead years ago.

If only the driver package was nice and fast once installed.... not even that can Nvidia do right! I absolutely hate when I have to go mess with specific app settings in the NvCP. Try to change a single option and watch the thing spass out for half a second. I absolutely hate it and the few features I do like I have to sign in to the bloated Geforce Experience **** app... yuck.. The sooner I can get rid of this card and get something else the better... Then again AMD doesn't seem to want more customers otherwise there would have been more cards shipped to retailers *slow clap*.

oguzsoso · 12 Mar 2021 at 22:07

i do hope for an improvement from nvidia, because RTX itself seem to hammer CPUs hugely. it's really easy to get into cpu bottlenecks even with much, much stronger cpus. so a general improvement would do wonders for all ranges of cpus, from low to high...

andybird123 · 12 Mar 2021 at 23:33

ltron said:
This is happening on a 3070 too, even a weak 5600XT is outperforming it. You know that eSports players play at low resolutions and settings to maximise framerates, right? Who do you think the Nvidia Gsync 1080P 360Hz monitors are marketed at?

Totally, people who spend £600 on a monitor and £500+ on a GPU are going to be buying a bargain bucket £100~ CPU to go with it.

Disco_P · 12 Mar 2021 at 23:33

oldestgregg said:
Obviously this is a problem Nvidia need to address but Id be curious how many people are like yourself and buy the super high end GPU's but don't have at least a bi-annual CPU upgrade top go with it. Speaking from a personal viewpoint I buy the highest end GPU every-time they come out and upgrade CPU every other year.

I don't think I am unique in doing fewer, bigger upgrades.

I only buy GPUs every 3-4 years, this 3080 was an upgrade to a 1080, which was an upgrade to an OG Titan. This 5820K is only the 2nd CPU I've had, bought 2nd hand as an upgrade to a 2500K. A £650 GPU upgrade is a lot so I am reluctant to immediately drop additional funds on a full platform upgrade as well so soon.

I'm in no way unhappy with my current setup but to know that performance is potentially available does sting.

andybird123 · 12 Mar 2021 at 23:35

Chuk_Chuk said:
Out of curiosity, do you buy a new CPU everytime you buy a new GPU?

No, because I buy decent CPU's in the first place

Disco_P · 12 Mar 2021 at 23:42

andybird123 said:
Totally, people who spend £600 on a monitor and £500+ on a GPU are going to be buying a bargain bucket £100~ CPU to go with it.

More likely they are using the same CPU from their previous build.

Twinz · 13 Mar 2021 at 00:05

My 3770k saw 4 GPU upgrades before I went back to AMD with Zen2.

Chuk_Chuk · 13 Mar 2021 at 00:28

andybird123 said:
No, because I buy decent CPU's in the first place

Interesting you said "decent", judging by your previous post I expected you to only buy the fastest gaming CPU. Since based on the previous post you seem to consider the Ryzen 5 line of CPUs to be "low end".

Regardless today's "decent" CPU is tomorrows "low end" unless you upgrade your CPU along with GPU

ltron · 13 Mar 2021 at 00:44

andybird123 said:
Totally, people who spend £600 on a monitor and £500+ on a GPU are going to be buying a bargain bucket £100~ CPU to go with it.

DX12 was supposed to help remove the CPU as a bottleneck, Nvidia's driver makes it fail in that goal. I'm sorry but I expect more from a multi billion dollar company when they sell me a product. I don't want to have to keep upgrading my CPU due to their incompetence.

Grim5 · 13 Mar 2021 at 01:19

ltron said:
DX12 was supposed to help remove the CPU as a bottleneck, Nvidia's driver makes it fail in that goal. I'm sorry but I expect more from a multi billion dollar company when they sell me a product. I don't want to have to keep upgrading my CPU due to their incompetence.

I think you misunderstood, the cpu bottleneck DX12 and Vulkun tried to solve is the bottleneck games encounter when they are tried to one or two cores and or ipc/clock speed. The way that bottleneck was alleviated was to push cpu load onto more cores - you fix single core bottlenecks by becoming multithreaded, that what Nvidias DX12 driver does anyway, it's became multithreaded - that's what people wanted for years, they said "come use my cpu cores" and now that software does they complain "why does my old quad core suck, **** Nvidia"

gamers can't make up their mind, they complain that games were bottlenecked and couldn't utilise all their cores, now they do use al the cores and the ones who use entry level products complain again that they need to upgrade to higher core count cpu

Id like to see HU also test Doom Eternal with Vulkun, I expect those old quad and 6 cores will get hit even harder than DX12

Twinz · 13 Mar 2021 at 01:22

Grim5 said:
I think you misunderstood, the cpu bottleneck DX12 and Vulkun tried to solve is the bottleneck games encounter when they are tried to one or two cores and or ipc/clock speed. The way that bottleneck was alleviated was to push cpu load onto more cores - you fix single core bottlenecks by becoming multithreaded, that what Nvidias DX12 driver does anyway, it's became multithreaded - that's what people wanted for years, they said "come use my cpu cores" and now that software does they complain "why does my old quad core suck, **** Nvidia"

I thought the older (weaker) multicore Ryzen stuff suffered with the Nvidia drivers too?

tommybhoy · 13 Mar 2021 at 02:10

andybird123 said:
Totally, people who spend £600 on a monitor and £500+ on a GPU are going to be buying a bargain bucket £100~ CPU to go with it.

3090+AMD R7 1700
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/34394661