Audi warranty denial....

jpaul said:
the new/old ford mach-e et. al system with the numeric pad on the door/pillar, plus tablet password, will solve these issues ? what are the other brands doing.
definitely the going to the beach scenario where you put your keys in the toe of your shoes, and hope no one monitored which car you left.
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I never saw this make it to the UK but always thought it was a good idea. My Jag had a pin code to disable valet mode, shame that wasn't extended to ignition.
 
dLockers said:
I never saw this make it to the UK but always thought it was a good idea. My Jag had a pin code to disable valet mode, shame that wasn't extended to ignition.
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Like the French used to do? :p

V9ONvNO.jpeg
 
Vertigo1 said:
I can't actually find anything definitive on this. I have a new Audi arriving in a few months which will have Advanced Key and intend to actually test it to be sure, so I know whether I need to keep the key in a metal box! :(
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You will have sleeping keys they have been around for some time now but test them when the car arrives. You won't get a manufacturer to tell you when they were introduced as that would be admitting the security on earlier cars is lacking. There is a thread somewhere with information on BMW fobs that are made by Valeo, the serial number tells you if its a sleeping fob. That thread is from around 2018 though.
 
I believe there are two possible exploits. The first just boosts your signal from the key to the car and the car will open. For that, you need to keep the key in a Faraday cage or a metallic tin.

The second exploit intercepts your key signal and blocks so it so you keep trying the button and the interceptor learns the next rolling code in the sequence. Then unblocks your signal and on the next button press it opens your car. After that they just give your car a later rolling code and it opens. Keeping your key in a tin won’t help with that sadly.
 
I thought rolling code reverse engineeering was only, theoretically, on much older cars that had used a common texas instruments semiconductor '*80' with a possible cryptographic hack.

hacking of the mobile phone entry/drive apps sounds as though that should be on the up - install (remote control) malware on a phone. ?
 
jpaul said:
I thought rolling code reverse engineeering was only, theoretically, on much older cars that had used a common texas instruments semiconductor '*80' with a possible cryptographic hack.

hacking of the mobile phone entry/drive apps sounds as though that should be on the up - install (remote control) malware on a phone. ?
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Nope, one of the big US hack stores sells an interceptor for current cars, including BMWs, Minis, Mercedes and Audis.
 
WJA96 said:
I believe there are two possible exploits. The first just boosts your signal from the key to the car and the car will open. For that, you need to keep the key in a Faraday cage or a metallic tin.

The second exploit intercepts your key signal and blocks so it so you keep trying the button and the interceptor learns the next rolling code in the sequence. Then unblocks your signal and on the next button press it opens your car. After that they just give your car a later rolling code and it opens. Keeping your key in a tin won’t help with that sadly.
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I believe you're talking about rolljam (although it works slightly differently to how you have described it), Samy Kamkar did a great talk about it and explains it in more detail here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNgvShN4USU

The majority of keyless thefts just take advantage of relay attacks. The equipment is fairly cheap and it's fairly easy to build some kit yourself if you know what you're doing. If you're worried about that type of theft I'd recommend looking at what options your manufacturer offer to disable the functionality or minimise the risk. I know a few people that used faraday pouches but didn't regularly check they were still protecting them. They had cars stolen :( If you use a faraday pouch make sure you regularly test it.
 
I'm waiting on a new Octavia and asked the dealers about the sleeping key, they didn't have a clue.

I downloaded the manual and there is no mention of it at all, but if you check in the new Leon manual with what would appear to be an identical key it is mentioned.

The Skoda does look to have an option in the settings to just turn the keyless entry system off, still using it to start the car but not open the doors.

Dunno if Audi will be using the same system.
 
Homer-Simpson said:
I believe you're talking about rolljam (although it works slightly differently to how you have described it), Samy Kamkar did a great talk about it and explains it in more detail here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNgvShN4USU
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thanks videos interesting .. so although he discusses mitigations to rolljam, I wondering which cars are susceptible, most button cars ?
so the devil or deepe blue sea


ZG002 said:
they didn't have a clue.
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find a better dealer ?

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/482072-keyless-can-it-be-disabled/
There was a change for the MY19 model that meant the key fob was only transmitting when it was moved. So if its just sitting somewhere in the house, it shouldn't be transmitting.

KODA SUPERB - change of the product MY2019
KESSY-key motion sensor

Key without movement does not transmit signal for a certain period of time - protection against thefts.
The wireless remote control will be equipped with a position sensor.
Presently

- Possibility of theft

New

- Key without movement secure
- The key is in motion without protections
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albeit
Has anybody had problems with their KAROQ'S KESSY? Mine has been playing up recently, locking and unlocking the car on its own. At slow speeds (*under 10mph) it often locks and unlocks the doors repeatedly. Sometimes the key has to be used to lock or unlock the car and if I try to start the engine I get an advisory message that the key cannot be detected. If I then press unlock, I can start the engine. I have twice been locked out of the car, with the key still in it and have now had to make sure I always keep the key in my pocket when I get out of the car for any reason. My local dealer seems to be mystified by what is happening.
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The more I read about keyless entry, the more I think it was the answer to a question that no bugger was asking in the first place...
 
JRS said:
The more I read about keyless entry, the more I think it was the answer to a question that no bugger was asking in the first place...
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Very much so, I came from a car with it to one without and it didn't bother me in the slightest.

Now I've ordered a car that comes with it as standard and it bothers me. Just isn't needed.
 
JRS said:
The more I read about keyless entry, the more I think it was the answer to a question that no bugger was asking in the first place...
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I've always considered it a tiny improvement in convenience in exchange for a massive reduction in security, although I appreciate the newer systems with sleeping fobs are better.

Whilst not standard on most Audi models, their recent shift from the usual German smorgasbord of individual options to a few select 'packs' means that you now often have it foisted on you if it's included in a pack with other options you want but can't specify separately.
 
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