Tories lost the 2019 election among working age adults

[cheesyboy]

They need to be convinced as most have a stake in the future of their children and want the best for them.

This in itself causes policy against the young. People care about their own kids, less so the young in general.

Inheritance, for example (a very anti-meritocratic mechanism)

We'll likely, with this giant old voting block, see policies to reduce inheritance tax, perhaps caps on social care costs to protect inheritance too. With one in five retired households worth £1m+ in wealth, that's a lot of tax that could have been taken from the dead, instead of working people.

 

[jim5000]

I think the fact that the conservatives got an 80 seat majority on the basis of ‘we don’t like foreigners’ is a good argument to deny the current crop of pensioners the vote. They have their houses and pensions to keep them comfy and a lifetime of EU benefits to look back on so they probably won’t miss not having a vote

 

[Greebo]

My core point here, to be clear.

Focus less on age, build a different debate that convinces them of the merits of your POV, whatever that is. They need to be convinced as most have a stake in the future of their children and want the best for them. Don't just write them off as not caring or out of touch, for I know my parents aren't. They care about the young much more than people might expect.

Unfortunately not backed up by the Brexit vote where there were loads of examples where elderly parents voted for Brexit even if it meant their kids lost their jobs.

 

[R.P.L]

We'll likely, with this giant old voting block, see policies to reduce inheritance tax, perhaps caps on social care costs to protect inheritance too. With one in five retired households worth £1m+ in wealth, that's a lot of tax that could have been taken from the dead, instead of working people.

Well it's not really the dead person that pays the inheritance tax...

 

[Housey]

Unfortunately not backed up by the Brexit vote where there were loads of examples where elderly parents voted for Brexit even if it meant their kids lost their jobs.

and a whole tonne of young people who could not be bothered to vote.

 

[Housey]

This in itself causes policy against the young. People care about their own kids, less so the young in general.

Inheritance, for example (a very anti-meritocratic mechanism)

We'll likely, with this giant old voting block, see policies to reduce inheritance tax, perhaps caps on social care costs to protect inheritance too. With one in five retired households worth £1m+ in wealth, that's a lot of tax that could have been taken from the dead, instead of working people.

So work with the kids to convince their parents then. You see, it really isn't as simple as old and young. The issues is most of the young can't be bothered, easier to moan.

 

[Dolph]

This thread seems to totally ignore the idea the people's politics and priorities can and do change as their age, property ownership and priorities change.

 

[Ayahuasca]

This thread seems to totally ignore the idea the people's politics and priorities can and do change as their age, property ownership and priorities change.

It may if you haven't read any of the posts within it, those things have been mentioned.

 

[Greebo]

and a whole tonne of young people who could not be bothered to vote.

Always the case. You are far more likely to vote as you get older. I was just contradicting your view that the older generation will always vote for whats best for their kids. Reality is people vote for whats best for them. Human nature.

 

[Jean-F]

People get conservative as they get older.

My old man has a conservative sticker on his front window to ward off canvassers.

My old man was an out and out rebel without a cause, he had a laminated poster made and put it in our window, it said, DON’T VOTE, IT ONLY ENCOURAGES THEM.
A friend of mine said to him, “You’re outrageous Mr. Genou, but what are you rebelling against?”
My old man said, “Everything, but what have you got?”

Honestly? I'd start with the lack of regulation around property being an investment asset for an old fogey cashing in their retirement. Even in the very short time I've lived on my road, 3 of the properties have been acquired by 50-something year old blokes, cashing in their pot @ £800k or there abouts, and then buying a £450k house with a £1450/month rental yield.

Maybe my ancient brain has misinterpreted your post, but it sounds like you’d like legislation introduced that would prevent older people from spending their pension lump sum and/or savings to provide themselves with an income in their old age, where did that come from, Mao’s little red book?
Naturally, if I’ve got that wrong, and I’m way off base, then I’ll apologise right off.

 

[R.P.L]

My old man was an out and out rebel without a cause, he had a laminated poster made and put it in our window, it said, DON’T VOTE, IT ONLY ENCOURAGES THEM.
A friend of mine said to him, “You’re outrageous Mr. Genou, but what are you rebelling against?”
My old man said, “Everything, but what have you got?”

I haven't voted in probably around 10 years. The older I get the more it seems to me like a circus that doesn't have any actual bearing on real life, and only gives people something to argue about.

 

[Quartz]

It's threads like this that demonstrate the contempt of the Left for the non-Left. No wonder Labour lost.

 

[Mason-]

It's simple.

1) Support party X
2) Party X loses election
3) Slice up the data
4) Find demographic you win in, and then find the demographic you lose in
5) Think of some argument about how the vote of the demographic that you lost in is worth less than the one you won in.

You could do the same for Tories/Labour, Old/Young, Man/Woman, Race, Religion, whatever. If it were the other way round, Tories won based off of a lot more votes in the young compared to old they'd be arguing that the old vote is more important than the young. People will come up with any convoluted rubbish to convince themselves that they're in the right, stems from insecurity and a need for validation of their views.

 

[cheesyboy]

Well it's not really the dead person that pays the inheritance tax...

Depends on perspective. Or your interpretation of probate.

But however you see it, not taxing it is subsidising a free, unearned, windfall for someone by taxing working people.

 

[cheesyboy]

It's threads like this that demonstrate the contempt of the Left for the non-Left. No wonder Labour lost.

Well, we can see Labour lost because the Tories dominated the grey vote, despite losing all younger demographics. Which is the topic.

 

[cheesyboy]

Maybe my ancient brain has misinterpreted your post, but it sounds like you’d like legislation introduced that would prevent older people from spending their pension lump sum and/or savings to provide themselves with an income in their old age, where did that come from, Mao’s little red book?
Naturally, if I’ve got that wrong, and I’m way off base, then I’ll apologise right off.

With housing costs being a major problem, and a growing one, the idea of cutting off the knees of the landlord industry shouldn't be off the table.

Ultimately, we're teetering on a birth rate problem, accelerated by Brexit (1st gen immigrants tend to have more kids, younger), and insecure housing situations, or financial pressures of housing, are a major drag on people starting families.

It's a problem that needs tackling, and soon. A forward-looking government would do something. Will a government appointed by the elderly?

 

[R.P.L]

Depends on perspective. Or your interpretation of probate.

But however you see it, not taxing it is subsidising a free, unearned, windfall for someone by taxing working people.

My point is that there's one person who definitely ends up with nothing however much you tax it, and that's the dead person. At the risk of stating the obvious, the person who pays the tax is the heir. The way you worded it made it sound like it was free money because the person being taxed was dead.

 

[Hagar]

Occupy the centre right ground in the UK and that is most of the popular vote. Blair saw that but Brown did not and lost. Since then it seems that the percieved wisdom from Labour is that they need to move further left to gain votes. While they persist with that view the Conservatives will continue to win.

Batley and Spen by-election, Labour have a very well meaning but inexperienced candidate who has stood in her murdered sisters seat probably hoping to win the sympathy vote. They need a big beast, a hard hitter from the centre of the party who can win back support from the workers in the constituency who quite frankly are fed up with freeloaders and people who don't work as hard as them but seem to be doing very nicely thank you.

I don't see that person anywhere at the moment. They have retired or gone to mayoralties like Burnham.

 

[Dis86]

Depends on perspective. Or your interpretation of probate.

But however you see it, not taxing it is subsidising a free, unearned, windfall for someone by taxing working people.

But it's not free as income tax has (ordinarily) already been paid on that money.

 

[Hades]

This in itself causes policy against the young. People care about their own kids, less so the young in general.

Inheritance, for example (a very anti-meritocratic mechanism)

We'll likely, with this giant old voting block, see policies to reduce inheritance tax, perhaps caps on social care costs to protect inheritance too. With one in five retired households worth £1m+ in wealth, that's a lot of tax that could have been taken from the dead, instead of working people.

That's making an assumption that taxing inheritance is morally correct. I disagree that it is. My views were the same when I was younger as they are now. But I find it morally wrong to tax inheritance which has already been taxed on the deceased during their lifetime via income tax. Double taxation is wrong in my opinion.

It sounds like you diasagree with older voters because, in general, their views don't agree with yours.