Ryzen 5 5600G and Ryzen 7 5700G coming in August.

[g67575]

Likely. I'm not sure if there's any difference between a 5700G and a 5980HX besides the binning; if you can't get 3.3GHz base, 4.8GHz boost and 2.1GHz GPU out of the 8 core 8 CU package at 45W, let it run 3.6 GHz base at 65W and slap it into a AM4 package as a 5700G.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16446/amd-ryzen-9-5980hs-cezanne-review-ryzen-5000-mobile-tested

Look at the table half way down. Just make 65W TDP versions of those and you have the 5700G and 5600G.

No doubt the same deal with the GE variants for Ryzen Pro.

Seems like a credible theory, especially because the l3 cache amounts are the same. Since the mobile design already exists, it should be easy to ramp up production.

That means we already know roughly what the performance will be like, presumably the desktop variants may be able to overclock a bit higher on all cores? I bet a beefy cooler is required to get the best out of them too.

The only obvious drawback, is that the memory controller is still limited to 3200mhz RAM speeds, same as other Zen 3 CPUs.

EDIT - It looks like it the CPU performance will be quite gimped by the 16MB of L3 cache, compared to a 11700K. Based on results from this video review here, CPU only tests from 7:07 onwards:
https://youtu.be/RN683sShPKI?t=430

The 1% low and average framerates are significantly slower in games such as CYBERPUNK 2077, Red Dead Redemption 2, Hitman 3 and Mafia. At least you can get 1% lows of 65 FPS or above in Cyberpunk 2077.

Kind of hard to recommend this as a gaming CPU now, I'm a bit surprised to see how much difference gimping the L3 cache (from 32 on Zen3 CPUs to 16 on the APUs). In the test, the reviewer is running the CPU at 4450mhz, so maybe clocking the CPU 200-300mhz higher will help a bit.

The iGPU does a good job though, with 1% lows of 25-60 FPS depending on the game (I think he's playing on max settings at 1080p).

 

[KompuKare]

You don't need to look at the speculation,AMD told AT the reasons why! Just look at the AT Ryzen 4000 APU review. AMD pretty much said its down to IF power draw,and having to strictly link it to memory frequency with chiplets. With a monolithic die,AMD said they can delink the memory and IF,and then be able to dynamically downclock the IF when required hence reducing the power draw.

Fair enough seem to recall seeing an explanation in some review.

However, the speculation thread does give us some indication about when we can eventually see a chiplet APU; which I take to be when 3D stacking is better established.

Obviously, a full silicon interposer could work now, but that's expensive and I am unsure whether it is possible to make a chiplet which can be used with either an interposer or the mini PCB. However, from what we've now discovered about the 3D cache - that all shipped Zen 3 CCDs already had the required changes - it is possible to design a chiplet which can be 3D stacked onto or not.

The cost of packaging will be higher - and there is a risk that a perfectly good die could get ruined while being packed - but eventually it would give AMD much more versatility.

It's a shame we haven't seen a real high end APU yet, with onboard HBM. Would cost quite a bit mind

As above, I am not sure if it is possible to design a chiplet which could be used with and without HBM. The AM4 IHS mock-up implies more Z height so at the cost of having to full simple designs with 'something' (hopefully not some kind of thermal foam unless it performs really well) it give AMD more flexibility so something interesting might come along. 3D stacking has to be done by TSMC so unsure how HBM chips from Hynix or Samsung fit into that. SRAM cache might be better than HBM for most thing anyhow certainly in an APU as the CPU can also use that.

For GPUs proper where any new high-end design almost has to have 16GB (as AMD cannot get away with planned obsolescence like Nvidia and skimp on VRAM), so the question must be like:

How much more would 16GB of HBM cost vs 16GB of GDDR6, and is that different better spent on 3D packing SRAM cache? I suspect SRAM would come out ahead in that question.

 

[Journey]

The only obvious drawback, is that the memory controller is still limited to 3200mhz RAM speeds, same as other Zen 3 CPUs.

The IF/Mem on APU's 4xxx or 5xxx goes waaaaayyyyyy beyond that. You can get IF stable at 2200MHz+ on the 4xxx parts, meaning 4400MHz DDR for the RAM, the 5xxx parts seemingly are offering even better IF speeds, we may even see 2500MHz on some parts, so 5000MHZ DDR.

Kind of hard to recommend this as a gaming CPU now,

Why would you even recommend it as a gaming CPU, unless you wanted the actual GPU part of the APU? If you have a GPU then why buy an APU, if you don't have a GPU and can't afford a good one, then a 5600g or 5700g is great.

 

[Scougar]

I want someone to max the crap out of the iGPU.

It probably wouldn't be a smart money choice though compared to buying a discrete card (under normal pricing).

 

[shamus21]

It's a shame we haven't seen a real high end APU yet, with onboard HBM. Would cost quite a bit mind

I would be surprised if they made high end Apu Graphics it would take sales away from Discrete graphics at the lower end.

 

[Journey]

I would be surprised if they made high end Apu Graphics it would take sales away from Discrete graphics at the lower end.

It would be marginal reduction at best, and besides if they new AM5 LGA socket can supported the unconfirmed 170w, it makes an ideal platform for a great RDNA2 based APU similar to the one in a Xbox S or maybe even X. They have many options, and capturing both a CPU sale and a GPU sale in one transaction is a good call, especially with Intel and Xe coming sooner rather than later.

If they could offer a Zen3 based APU with RDNA2 and PCI-E 4.0 (for NVMe) at 8c/16t, for £350-400, and possible dual RAM support, or SKU's for DDR4 & DDR5 then it can't be a bad thing, after all they also take a potential sale away from Nvidia at the low end if they do that as well, and you still have a 16x slot to upgrade if you aren't looking at a micro-box size machine.

 

[Joxeon]

It would be marginal reduction at best, and besides if they new AM5 LGA socket can supported the unconfirmed 170w, it makes an ideal platform for a great RDNA2 based APU similar to the one in a Xbox S or maybe even X. They have many options, and capturing both a CPU sale and a GPU sale in one transaction is a good call, especially with Intel and Xe coming sooner rather than later.

If they could offer a Zen3 based APU with RDNA2 and PCI-E 4.0 (for NVMe) at 8c/16t, for £350-400, and possible dual RAM support, or SKU's for DDR4 & DDR5 then it can't be a bad thing, after all they also take a potential sale away from Nvidia at the low end if they do that as well, and you still have a 16x slot to upgrade if you aren't looking at a micro-box size machine.

I think this is probably the way things will go in the future if GPU prices keep increasing at the current rate.

 

[LePhuronn]

I would be surprised if they made high end Apu Graphics it would take sales away from Discrete graphics at the lower end.

Assuming that A: there are lower-end discrete GPUs coming, B: prices are remotely appropriate for low-end discrete GPUs and C: stock availability

Yes, we're in mental times right now and in the long run availability (or lack thereof) is a blip, but the precedent started with idiot consumers lapping up Turing prices has gone into overdrive during this pandemic and it's clear to Nvidia, AMD and Intel when they enter the GPU fray that people are retarded and will drop any amount of money on graphics cards. So even though Ampere and RDNA 2 (for example) can scale down to the low-end market, why on earth would they even want to when much more money can be made?

In fact, filling the low end market with APUs actually frees up production capacity for mid and high end GPUs, and AMD could realistically price an APU equivalent to what a mid-range CPU and low-end GPU would've cost; £400-ish for an 6c/12t with RX580-level graphics performance doesn't actually sound too unreasonable.

 

[g67575]

I wonder if a 5700X /underclocked 5800X is out of the question now? Especially since AMD already released the 5800 (non X) for OEM prebuilt systems only.

 

[Cyber-Mav]

they should provide igpu for threadripper. plenty of people who need the cpu grunt but dont need a discrete gpu.

 

[KompuKare]

they should provide igpu for threadripper. plenty of people who need the cpu grunt but dont need a discrete gpu.

Since AMD have nothing like a RX460 or lower anymore, those sales will automatically go NVidia too.

Threadripper has so much potential memory bandwidth which could make an iGPU interesting but I guess with the chiplet design there is no way for one CCD to get all that bandwidth although a iGPU chiplet connected to the IO chip? That might be possible.

 

[Journey]

although a iGPU chiplet connected to the IO chip? That might be possible.

If/once they swap to a smaller process node for the I/O, they'd be more likely to integrate a GPU into that, as it has no need to talk to the CPU CCD's at all.

 

[LePhuronn]

they should provide igpu for threadripper. plenty of people who need the cpu grunt but dont need a discrete gpu.

if you're dropping a couple of grand on a Threadripper system, what's another 50 quid on a basic Firepro or Quadro? Hell, I nabbed a Quadro NVS 300 for a tenner.

 

[Cyber-Mav]

Hell, I nabbed a Quadro NVS 300 for a tenner.

Thats nothing to be proud of. That card gets beat by igp 5 generations old.

 

[LePhuronn]

Thats nothing to be proud of. That card gets beat by igp 5 generations old.

Eh? What's that got to do with anything?

You said there are Threadripper users who don't need a discrete GPU, presumably the inference being just something to run a display from. That £10 Quadro gets me a pair of 2K displays if I want them. I'm not gaming, I'm not encoding, I'm just running monitors and Nvidia still have certified Windows server drivers.

So why do I need an iGPU? Granted if I'm planning on filling every PCIe slot with a compute card then the Quadro would get in the way.

 

[jigger]

If these overclock like the Renoir did they will be little power houses.

 

[LordBeggar]

Hope we can get this before bots buy them

 

[lettuce]

So no advantage getting this over the 5600x??.........even if it comes out being £30-50 cheaper?

 

[Joxeon]

So no advantage getting this over the 5600x??.........even if it comes out being £30-50 cheaper?

The main advantage would be that you can still use the PC while you try and find a GPU.

 

[KompuKare]

So no advantage getting this over the 5600x??.........even if it comes out being £30-50 cheaper?

Well, with half the cache (of Zen 3 desktop) it should usually be slower.
However, I am sure even Renoir with a quarter of the cache (of Zen 2 desktop) there are a few programs or situations were being a monolith makes Renoir faster.
The same should apply to Cezanne vs Vermeer and since 16MB vs 32MB is closer than 8MB vs 32MB was, there should be more niches were the APUs are faster this time.
Don't remember from the few desktop Renoir reviews, but a monolithic die might be able to run the memory faster.
Only PCIe 3.0 though, if that matters. Desktop idle should be a lot better as I recall one of the Renoir reviews having a system with 10W complete system idle.