Significant incident Plymouth

[Kenai]

Has there been any statement that he tried to get help or that he wanted it?

Even the 'begged the NHS' statement is so far only from a completely unverified 'friend of the family' that seems to only be reported by the Daily Mail.

This is all standard 'post event' noise really, it could be absolutely true, it could be completely fake, or somewhere in the middle.

 

[Greebo]

Something like that, yes. In many cases where there is a mental health issue in the family, many parents will a] turn a blind eye [because they don't want to look at themselves] or b] be so used to it that they have given up questioning it. Both types of behaviour are complicit in their own ways.

Also a lot depends on what she means when she says she "begged" the NHS. What did she do, speak to her son's GP - or urge him to do so - get a referral form for mental health, sit down with him and honestly together - with sincere, caring and direct questioning, answer the questions honestly before submisson? Because if she had, he would be on at least step 3 help immediately. Maybe even step 4.

Someone like me can get referred for intensive CBT and psychiatric help and he can't? And I'm not about to go out with a gun murdering anyone either. No, something doesn't add up at all.



I don't know.

Mental health care is a joke in this country. Used to know a guy who had serious mental health problems. He would end up doing something stupid - he once took his neighbours dog to the nearest dual carriageway and threw sticks across the road in an effort to get the dog run over and on another occasion was picked up be the police walking down the middle of the M62 stark naked - and then get sectioned, receive treatment and he was 100% fine once back on his medication and then he would be released but nobody would follow up. It was only then a matter of time before he would stop taking his medication again and then spiral downhill rapidly. Rinse, repeat until he finally topped himself one time.
#
9 years ago when i suffered from serious depression and one morning after new year I got up and couldnt stop shaking and vomiting at the thought of facing work again, I went to my GP (who was lovely and really helpful btw) who immediately put me in touch with an NHS psychiatrist. She kindly explained I would have to wait 6 months for an NHS appointment or if I was prepared to pay for private she could start seeing me the following day. Thank god I was in a position to be seen privately as I serious doubt I would be here still if I had to wait 6 months to get help.

 

[dlockers]

I don't doubt they asked for support, but the fact he had a gun license is evidence enough to suggest he was a highly functioning individual who would have had to have been believed if he said "I'm fine, back off".

 

[touch]

I don't know.

Ahh, ok. I understand. I thought that when you said "She is absolving herself of responsibility" in the present tense you meant in relation to the shooting. Reading it again I can see what you meant.

 

[Thekwango]

I don't believe red tape should be used to make something effectively unobtainable.

i don't believe that should be the case either. but some things in life are unobtainable for many reasons, e.g logistically, financially.

I do believe however that ownership needs to be highly controlled. As this whole thing clearly shows.

yea, sadly no matter the controls there will always be those that manage to carry out these atrocities. all we can do is make it as difficult as possible for them.

 

[Thekwango]

If all guns were stored in one location i.e. a gun club then that would make them a serious target for thieves. They'd need some seriously expensive security to keep on top of it.

genuine question, how do gun shops manage it? they also carry ammunition so i presume they are even more of a prime target for thieves.

 

[plasmahal]

His mother supposedly begged the police and NHS to get him mental health help, if this turns out to be true then we need a serious investigation into firearms licence protocols

And also into the failures by the NHS as well.

RIP to the victims.

A lot to process in a short space of time.

 

[Mason-]

genuine question, how do gun shops manage it? they also carry ammunition so i presume they are even more of a prime target for thieves.

Dunno, I expect they have similar problems. Maybe one massive walk in safe, like banks? Also tracking devices on the unsold guns that aren't easily removed? They could also remove parts of the guns that make them useless until sold.

Those options aren't very plausible for the scenario of owners having their guns stored at gun clubs.

 

[Thekwango]

Dunno, I expect they have similar problems. Maybe one massive walk in safe, like banks? Also tracking devices on the unsold guns?

so probably not an insurmountable task to make gun clubs secure holding premises for leisure use firearms, though i'd assume most already have secure storage facilities but i'm just guessing at that.

 

[Thekwango]

Those 2 options aren't very plausible for the scenario of owners having their guns stored at gun clubs.

why not?

 

[Mason-]

so probably not an insurmountable task to make gun clubs secure holding premises for leisure use firearms, though i'd assume most already have secure storage facilities but i'm just guessing at that.

It depends really, I have no idea I'm speculating. I doubt the techniques they use are public either for obvious reasons. However for a tracking device to be used as a deterrent it would have to be difficult to remove/attach, otherwise it'd be easy to just break it off. So having to do that every weekend you go shooting would be a PITA.

 

[Rroff]

Doesn't really make much odds if someone has a reason to take the firearm off premises and not just range shooting. Then you have farmers, etc. who need immediate access to their firearms.

 

[Mason-]

Just did some googling to see if it were common @Thekwango , can only see one report from the UK: https://www.cambs.police.uk/news-and-appeals/Whittlesey-Gun-Shop-burglary

They only managed to steal clothing + air rifles, i.e. not proper shotguns, so whatever techniques they use was obviously deterrent enough to dissuade the burglars. We don't know how plausible those solutions are for a scenario where people can turn up and collect and use their shotgun when they please.

Here's another: https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/colchester-firearms-burglary-investigation-2589256

He actually managed to get 7 firearms.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

‘Unstable mental health’ seems like a bit of an understatement. Psychopath. Bat **** crazy. Take your pick. To kill a kid, I could never even remotely understand that.

 

[Thekwango]

It depends really, I have no idea I'm speculating. I doubt the techniques they use aren't very public either for obvious reasons. However for a tracking device to be used as a deterrent it would have to be difficult to remove/attach, otherwise it'd be easy to just break it off. So having to do that every weekend you go shooting would be a PITA.

as i've said previously, convenience shouldn't be a consideration for firearms ownership. it should be a pain in the **** to get the guns out to go do a bit of shooting at the weekend. i imagine plenty of other weekend activities involve a much higher level of hassle to sort before enjoying it.

 

[Mason-]

as i've said previously, convenience shouldn't be a consideration for firearms ownership. it should be a pain in the **** to get the guns out to go do a bit of shooting at the weekend. i imagine plenty of other weekend activities involve a much higher level of hassle to sort before enjoying it.

Ok. I suggest writing a letter to your MP or standing as one then.

 

[Thekwango]

Just did some googling to see if it were common @Thekwango , can only see one report from the UK: https://www.cambs.police.uk/news-and-appeals/Whittlesey-Gun-Shop-burglary

They only managed to steal clothing + air rifles, i.e. not proper shotguns, so whatever techniques they use was obviously deterrent enough to dissuade the burglars. We don't know how plausible those solutions are for a scenario where people can turn up and collect and use their shotgun when they please.

gun stores robberies do appear a rare occurrence which would lead me to think the logistics of gun club storage may not be as prohibitive as some might think. of course i could be wrong. but i don't think it should be poo poo'd as an idea just because it would be a bit more faff for an owner.

 

[Mason-]

Also as another point @Thekwango how does keeping your gun at a range prohibit the guy doing what he did? If a guy wanted to shoot up a load of people, he can just go to the range, get his gun and do what he wants to do. Location of the gun I don't really think makes much difference, preventing nutters from owning guns is the more pressing issue here.

 

[Thekwango]

Ok. I suggest writing a letter to your MP or standing as one then.

ah ok. i thought we were just discussing possible amendments to gun ownership in an off hand sort of way. perhaps you need to do the same given your opinion below?!

Maybe the requirements for ownership needs to increase, an active test of mental fitness rather than a passive one.

 

[Mason-]

ah ok. i thought we were just discussing possible amendments to gun ownership in an off hand sort of way. perhaps you need to do the same given your opinion below?!

What do you want from me? You think there should be hindrances for people to use their guns legally for sport. I don't really care for changing your mind. If you care that strongly about it, then write to your MP about it.