Soldato
That's not what I'm saying but if that's how you interpret it then fine
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Don't Buy A Used Mining GPU
- Thread starter Psycho Sonny
- Start date
That's not what I'm saying but if that's how you interpret it then fine
Soldato
These posters may not understand that its been the only time in living memory I can think of where you could do something before the rich/famous/entitled get their hands on it to supress yet another paradigm..
Link.
Obviously must be retarded then..
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Soldato
The problem is that "sustainable energy" being used for mining,is meaning fossil fuels are still being used to supply the rest of the electricity needs of the grid in many countries. In many countries electricity use is massively increasing,especially with the need to power EVs,etc.
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Soldato
The answer to that is nations shifting away from fossil fuels, surely this has been a thing for decades and has nothing to do with cryptocurrency (although its being used as the scapegoat).
Soldato
But any renewables wasted on crypto is meaning something else has to be powered by fossil fuels. Rising energy demand is still outstripping growth in renewables. Rising personal energy demand is a big problem - electricity demand now is going to be a issue now.
The UK nearly ran out of electricity capacity during late last year,as the wind farms had problems.
We need to be reducing energy demand increase,and crypto is not a scapegoat,as it is causing massive increases in computer power usage,because GPUs are bucking the trend of everything else. They are increasing in power consumption.
Gamers also rarely run their GPUs at heavy load,because most people don't have time to run games all the time. Most gamers will buy a GPU every few years,hence why a 2016 GTX1060 is still very common. Most gamers will be on relatively lowish power entry level/mainstream GPUs too.
I care less about someone just doing some idle mining on their only GPU,but cryptominers buying 10....100s of GPUs and running them 24/7 are consuming a ton of power. Also production of electronics is very wasteful(especially silicon chips) - look at all the GPU "good years" - they are during mining booms. When it goes back to "normal" demand,the amount of GPUs produced falls massively.
GPUs are amongst the biggest,if not biggest consumer chips made,which means poor yields and even more wafer requirements. Silicon production uses a ton of water. They also are the most power hungry electrical chips most people use.
I have a mini-ITX system,modified to be as low power as possible and have been doing this for over a decade now. I don't overclock my CPU or GPU either. I run 65W TDP CPUs over the higher TDP ones. I cap my FPS,as I want lower power,and lower heat production. So I have zero sympathy for people running like 10 high end GPUs under heavy load for years at a time.
They are probably consuming in one year with their multiple mining rigs,what my PCs have consumed in like 10 years!
Unless people,are actually buying their own solar panels,and powering their entire rigs its still increasing load on the grid.
Renewables are terrible at peak load coverage - it means you need to either have coal/gas/oil power stations or nuclear.
Even battery storage technologies won't be viable for billions of people as you will need massive amounts of Lithium and Cobalt,and mining of those is not great either for the environment too.
Nobody is entitled to have more than one recent GPU in one rig at a time. Anything more is a luxury really.
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Soldato
The logic tanks pretty hard here. What do you think is needed for all cars in the UK (to meet energy targets) to shift over to electric? Charging these vehicles is going to be a massive drain on the network that will dwarf any crypto mining demands! Many EV charging points have been installed all over the UK but there will also be people charging from domestic homes too.
The National Grid and the consortium of Energy generators, need to or should already be on the case here. Last I read, the nuclear plant that has been dragging on (Hinkley point C) but some of the demand will be met from this. There needs to be huge incentives for micro generation to be encouraged again to get more renewables on board unless they think gigantic wind farms in the fields is enough?
Secondly there wont be massive amounts of miners in the UK, the energy requirements are too expensive. You may get offset setups where it is partially subsidised by something like Solar/Wind/Hydro but big players will all be located elsewhere in the globe. Bedroom miners are not abundant, you will only get people crawling out of the woodwork when its a sunny day and NiceHash is churning out free money. Once the market tanks (or say ETH forks and the profit halfs) they will give up or sell on.
Here is a nice source, I dont know how accurate it is but its from the national grid themselves. I will quote two parts that challenge your statements:
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Soldato
Fixed for accuracy.
Your (or my) gaming use is no more a "right" than any other GPU use.
How dare we gamers buy up all the GPUs purely for entertainment purposes, when there are hard working CAD designers and computer modellers out there who need them to work & pay the bills?!
Soldato
Anyone wanna see a pic of a Gigabyte GTX 1070 mining card where the centre fan failed, its not a pretty sight and would put most people off buying a mining card for life!
Soldato
Would it have been any different if the card had been used exclusively for gaming instead?
Soldato
Oh it certainly would have. To give an idea, I had to used "wet and dry" paper to get the thermal paste off the heatsink, it had baked on that hard, and the edge of a credit card was used to slowly scrape the remains off the die, which when cleaned, had a surface very similar to the moon, ie: pock marked and severely damaged. The Vram pads literally disintegrated and virtually "blew" away!
So anyone tempted to buy an ex-mining card, unless you know the full history of it's use and if it had been cared for properly and maintained, or the owner would allow the removal of the HSF assembly so you can have a look at the die and Vram, my advice is to run away and hide, you might be in for a nasty shock
Soldato
You have a picture of the gaming card as well then I assume, post them both please so we can see the difference
Soldato
Just trying to get it off my phone and then it. I'll post it up a bit later when its done.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8364/JcCsJl.jpg
Not a very good pic I know but it does show (just) the damage to one side of the die, also the state of the Vram pads.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8364/JcCsJl.jpg
Not a very good pic I know but it does show (just) the damage to one side of the die, also the state of the Vram pads.
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Soldato
Nope - at least cars are needed for transport,and reduce local pollution. I still think that the current battery technologies are really not sustainable and more people show learn to walk/cycle when they can,instead of using the car for everything.
People don't get it - energy consumption needs to decrease.
YOU don't need 10s of GPUs to mine - I said it was fine if some was casually using their single GPU.
The reality nobody needs 5,10 or 20 GPUs.That is for one person.
PCMR needs to stop this - most people own laptops which are far more efficient than desktops,even mainstream ones. More people are moving towards using phones/tablets which use mere watts.
So why do hardware enthusiasts feel the need to justify 1000s of watts just for the mining/gaming rigs?
What is going to happen is desktops will end up getting screwed over with additional taxation. In the US they are slowly trying to find ways to do it.
How many miners with so many cards,are paying taxation on their income?? How many are tax dodging on their income?? If you are mining with more than your one existing GPU,ie,5/10/20 of then its a business.
Nobody needs 5+ high end GPUs consuming kilowatts of power in a home setup. That is kilowatts of power running 24/7 which is like running a kettle 24/7,and more than the combined used of essentials like fridges,etc.
Fixed for accuracy.
Your (or my) gaming use is no more a "right" than any other GPU use.
How dare we gamers buy up all the GPUs purely for entertainment purposes, when there are hard working CAD designers and computer modellers out there who need them to work & pay the bills?!
Wrong. Nvidia and AMD sell them as gaming cards,not for entitled miners. Nvidia sells GPUs specificially for miners,and AMD/Nvidia sells GPUs for people for CAD usage(FirePro,etc).
This why entitled miners were moaning about LHR cards,as Nvidia does not want you mining on gaming cards. Nvidia and AMD sell cards with professional drivers,because they don't want people doing CAD on anything which is gaming related.
At one of my previous work places we need GPUs for work related purposes,so we bought the enterprise level gpus with the additional cost.
YOU WANT mining support,buy a mining card,etc.
If anything anyone using a gaming GPU for non-gaming usage is using outside what AMD/Nvidia have tiered it to. Miners are very entitled,and then start moaning at gamers who only buy one card every 5/6 years,and use it for its intended purpose.
Gamers are not running their cards flatout 24/7 for years at a time. Hence miners are just consuming far more power.
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Soldato
I sometimes use my 6800 for software development and watching YouTube, which isn't gaming, so I guess even if I wasn't mining on it then I would be one of the bad guys anyway
Soldato
I sometimes use my 6800 for software development and watching YouTube, which isn't gaming, so I guess even if I wasn't mining on it then I would be one of the bad guys anyway
If Nvidia/AMD officially support software in normal drivers,that is what they officially support. For example Titan cards had support for specific applications outside games.
They have enterprise cards and mining cards,for those two areas. At one of my previous workplaces we had to use cards for certain things,so we paid for them.
Miners can't use the excuse about blaming gamers,when Nvidia/AMD shout from the rooftops these are gaming products. Gamers are the intended audience,not miners!
If anything AMD/Nvidia have been pretty good sports in allowing PCMR to do what they want with GPUs.
Plus again I have no problem if you are using your single card to "mine". What I have an issue is greedy miners buying 5/10/20 cards,using multiple rigs and then moaning at a normal gamer. Especially during a pandemic when so many people are stuck in lockdowns with kids,and couldn't go out.
The same people who own cards for 5/6 years,don't run them 24/7. Whereas the miners buy 10x the number of cards,and runs them at high loads for months/years. The same who have multiple PCs,etc.
The same miners who first start with high end cards,most gamers don't care about and then raid all the lower end cards.
The fact is they are consuming FAR more power than the average PC user or gamer. Most gamers use mainstream GPUs,and stock CPUs.
You even saw how greedy some of these miners became when they bought up laptops to mine on. Laptops? Really?
So even more waste,than a mining desktop. Dozens of extra CPUs,screens,etc all needing to be produced.
Soldato
Yeah, to be fair that's nuts, there just isn't the cooling capacity to deal with it, will confess I tried mining on my laptop for a couple of days, saw the temps and thought "**** that!", definitely a quick way to kill the hardware!
Soldato
This is my big problem with the miners - greed. Most people wouldn't care if someone even bought an extra GPU to mine on.
But no,this is what I have noticed over time with the last 3 mining goldrushes. They buy lots of of higher end GPUs,then those run out,then they buy the mainstream GPUs,and then eventually the lower end ones. In this case the laptop RTX3060 GPUs had more shaders too,so it was cheap to buy a laptop over the street price of dGPUs.
They buy all the GPUs,and lots of them per person. In the last rush,all the AMD GPUs were bought. Pascal wasn't even as great for mining,but then they bought all the Pascal cards,and literally only some of the GDDR5X cards such as the GTX1080 didn't go too silly price,but those were not cheap anyway. But then those also went up in price IMHO,as must buy any GPU at any price,cause its like a gold rush,right?
Then they pay through the nose for these GPUs,hence creating the scalpers market. Then you have desperate gamers,who have a broken GPU,or like a 10 year old rig then buying crap at overinflated prices even secondhand.
Then what happened last time,good old Nvidia was looking at how much their gaming GPUs were going,and thought the Pascal RRP was "too cheap"so they jacked up the prices. This is why Turing happened.
The RTX3060TI/RTX3070/RTX3080/RTX3090/RX6800/RX6800XT RRPs were set during a pandemic,and Nvidia/AMD have longterm contracts with TSMC,Micron,etc. So those RRPs are already profitable taking the pandemic into account IMHO.
Look at the RX6600XT/RTX3070TI/RTX3080TI RRPs - AMD/Nvidia are using every excuse in the book,to justify them. Yet so many other PC components seem to be far less affected in anyway!
Nvidia has its best quarter on record. AMD will also have one. Miners have created this market,just like they did the same during 2017/2018 and before during the first mining rush.
So its great,we get screwed over now,and next year we all can see AMD/Nvidia wanting to jack up prices even more. They got a nice margin increase,and Wall Street says they need more of it.
It wouldn't surprise me at this rate,a basic laptop and a console is what I will be using in the future,and I don't like consoles. Maybe by then game streaming will actually work,and I won't need to care anymore.
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and fans in servers etc generally run 24/7 for years and years.
No doubt mining will increase wear on fans, but to the point where it reduced their life enough to be signifcant? probably not.
Renewable won't become common place until fossil fuel companies NEED to start working on them because they have ran out fo them. We have been well capable or making renewable work for atleast 30 years but we dint because the people who make the rules are in the pockets of the people with all the money (all the fossil fuel comapnies).
Using them up quicker will give us more time to fix the planet before this woke generation take over and we are in a worse place than they are in mad max, nuking each other because they didn't realise their pronoun was a word they had never heard of or used before...
Using them up quicker will give us more time to fix the planet before this woke generation take over and we are in a worse place than they are in mad max, nuking each other because they didn't realise their pronoun was a word they had never heard of or used before...