Soldato
- Joined
- 29 Jul 2004
- Posts
- 7,050
Lol, you really do post some outrageous stuff.
The English Channel
- Thread starter Fatboy123
- Start date
Exactly what you find unusable immoral other think it is fine
Man of Honour
First victim of the recent accident identified:
Heartbreaking story, RIP.
Heartbreaking story, RIP.
Soldato
"but why do they come here?!"
Real people with real lives and hopes and ambitions, fleeing difficult situations and hoping for better. And we question their morals, talk of them like animals, and feel little for their tragic passing.
As I said earlier, you have no idea who is trying to come here, in a more general sense.
No doubt it's a mixture of those with good intentions and those with dubious intentions.
There really is little point in identifying one person in one boat and saying, "They truly were just good people in a bad situation." Because that's just one person in one boat.
And having hope for a better future doesn't grant the right to come here, whether you like it or not.
Doubtless some of these people were not in danger, but frankly were just unhappy with their prospects in their home country.
For those people there are legal routes to entry; legal routes to apply for residence, etc.
Again, how many migrants can the UK take? Would you put a figure on it, please?
If we throw our doors open and say to the world, "Come here for a better life!" then just how many people could we accept before being completely overwhelmed?
Soldato
There's not enough information to make a judgement. Why was her fiance here, was he here legally? Why did he come first and leave her behind? I'm going to assume she knew the trip was risky, and chose to take that risk.
Yes it's sad that people are dying if they are decent people. I'm not sad if anyone criminal dies though.
It still doesn't change my view that we should be fixing their home country instead of helping a tiny number of people settle here.
Soldato
We should be doing those things for sure. But it's not going to change the already adult hardened criminals. They are of no value to the world and can't be fixed.
I would say the same about a Glaswegian heroin addict. If you've tried several times and failed, they are a drain on our society and should be removed from it permanently for the wider benefit.
Soldato
I doubt the incidence of people coming here with bad intentions in mind is anything but a vanishingly rare occurrence tbh. Aren't most of our terror incidents people who radicalised within the UK?
As for other crime, to rationalise: Among any set of people, you get the unhinged (psychopathy is frighteningly common), but if they're in a similar proportion to British born criminals, then victims of serious crime are not increasing on a per head basis (I.e. We're importing victims as well as perpetrators)
We can take as many as want to take. We've been used to an average of +250k on net annual immigration for the past couple of decades and with that figure falling to 30k post brexit, there's scope (and possibly necessity) to take as many as we can.
Not that I'm advocating a target figure, but it's a political choice, rather than a limit of resource.
Soldato
How criminal does one have to be for you to lose all sympathy for them dying prematurely ?
Soldato
A stat from a study from perhaps a decade ago said that most (I.e. Over 50%) UK households pay no net tax. That's once all benefits are weighed against tax paid.
Which is to say, lots of people are a drain on society. Killing them seems a bit extreme.
Besides, Billionaires drain far more from our society than a Glaswegian scag fiend. But they're held up as heroes.
So in your view we can take an unbounded, potentially unlimited number, so long as there is the political will to take them?
Soldato
Well yeah. I'm not advocating taking millions of refugees, but there's no reason for it not to be possible and somewhat successful if the government wanted to make it work.
Much poorer countries then us take millions of refugees and don't collapse. We're hand-wringing over about 30k a year.
![[FnG]magnolia](/styles/overclockers/avatars/9.png){kind=avatar}
Caporegime
Isn't most of this 'debate' based on emotional hand-wringing? I think it's the concept of the apparent unfairness or benefit or illegal nature of immigrants versus what we individually and actually experience as a result of immigration? I can't imagine Cornwall has many immigrants (other than the London overspill with 3 holiday homes each) so this is in some ways a showing of intellectual reckoning rather than actual experience. Or does everyone in this thread face daily hardship because other people have tried to improve their lives?
Aren't most of your posts based on being an insufferable douchebag? Answer: yes.
Caporegime
While I agree with that view, you are deflecting a little bit. Your views are emotional based on bias not actual outcome which affects you. Am I wrong?
Do we have unlimited resources to give to people who want a better life than the country they live in at present?
How is the realisation that there isn't an infinite money, housing and hospitals and schools tree an appeal to emotion?
And if we do have an over-abundance of stuff in this country that we should just give away to all comers, then why not send it to those other countries instead of requiring them to come here? We should just sponsor them all to improve their own countries.
Or they can apply to come here using the proper routes, and pass whatever criteria exists for coming to this country to live and work legally. Which doesn't appear to be a impossibly high bar in any case. There's tons of legal migration going on.
Frankly I don't think we should just open our arms to people coming here with no skills, no English, nothing in common with the natives, etc. What good will that do?
No one has spoke about them like animals, ******** hyperbole
Why does it need to affect his local areas specifically for him to have a view or be concerned about it?
Migrants drowning in the channel is still an issue and migrants requiring housing, benefits while awaiting a claim etc.. is also still an issue.
Deleted member 236143
D
Deleted member 236143
Regards the fixing of these countries that people migrate from.....
Eh many of them we bombed! Or we funded or armed the bombers bombing them. Personally I would not sit at home all day and be bombed I would try to leave.
In terms of migrant numbers we have lots of room we could easily take in 10%. A good 6 million! But if it happened over the course of a few months even a year it would press on our stretched resources.
Remember we live in one of the richest countries on earth yet we cannot afford police, hospitals or staff, and much more. But we can afford to have second jobs for our MPs and lots of expenses.
Country is a goldmine. I am surprised South Americans are not willing to take on the challenge of a larger voyage and reach the channel to the land of lucrative abundance.
Eh many of them we bombed! Or we funded or armed the bombers bombing them. Personally I would not sit at home all day and be bombed I would try to leave.
In terms of migrant numbers we have lots of room we could easily take in 10%. A good 6 million! But if it happened over the course of a few months even a year it would press on our stretched resources.
Remember we live in one of the richest countries on earth yet we cannot afford police, hospitals or staff, and much more. But we can afford to have second jobs for our MPs and lots of expenses.
Country is a goldmine. I am surprised South Americans are not willing to take on the challenge of a larger voyage and reach the channel to the land of lucrative abundance.
Caporegime
I don't know and didn't say that
I know and I can only wonder why you're setting that sentence up as though I'd suggested otherwise