Soldato
- Joined
- 30 Sep 2005
- Posts
- 16,559
Surely he's better than some of the other idiots we've had.
Sir Tony Blair
- Thread starter andicole0
- Start date
Soldato
Can't say I disagree with you, but I was pretty young when he was PM so I can't remember much of that. It just seemed like everyone was comfortable.
Soldato
He was a decent PM and a million times better than the idiot we have now, and the ones in waiting.
I always find it interesting that people always bring up Iraq when talking about Tony Blair like it was the only thing that happened within his tenure. It’s almost as if it’s an ideological response to a labour PM.
What about that thing that caused nearly all the headaches with Brexit, oh yes, the good friday agreement, ending decades of ‘troubles’ and enabling a devolved government to form in Northern Ireland. Or the other interventions he green lit like Sierra Leone.
Compare that to how our interventions have gone since like Libya and Syria. It’s easy to forget about those.
What about that thing that caused nearly all the headaches with Brexit, oh yes, the good friday agreement, ending decades of ‘troubles’ and enabling a devolved government to form in Northern Ireland. Or the other interventions he green lit like Sierra Leone.
Compare that to how our interventions have gone since like Libya and Syria. It’s easy to forget about those.
Soldato
Agreed.
Blair might not be the best PM, but like you said about the Good Friday agreement, he did do a few good things. For example bringing in the minimum wage. My supermarket job paid me £2/hour before it got introduced and I was 20 years old then O.o Then it became £3/hour then £3.60.
I also felt that general politics in Blair's first few years were pretty stable, taking a back seat. Like there were better things for people to talk about than politics. This went out of the window with 9/11 and then the eventual Iraq war as already mentioned.
Another thing that hit the fan during Blair's time was the fox hunting debate. It just went on... and on... and on. I was so done with it.
No idea how much TB is responsible but looking back there is a huge change around the point I left school and TB became PM before and after - between how many kids were living in basically abject poverty - I took for granted growing up having 3-4 decent meals a day, never mind stuff like having a telephone and car - it was quite shocking in more recent years to find out how many of my classmates were sometimes going days between a proper meal, lucky to have the clothes on their back, rarely saw their parents due to the hours they were working just to put a roof over their heads, etc. as I'd taken my reasonably middle class upbringing to be "normal".
Soldato
I'm fine with Blair being knighted...
As long as it's clumsily
As long as it's clumsily
If only Iraq hadn't come along, TB & co would have still been ridiculously popular.
At the end of the day most of the politicians agreed to the war. Their thinking was that America will go in regardless of what we say so we may as well try and secure some brownie points while we have the opportunity.
Loyalties run thin between countries especially between any country and the US. But if they had said at the time 'NO' we don't agree and won't take part the fear was it would weaken Britain's image in the world. We would be seen as spineless at a time where Britain's global image and influence was already pretty non existent.
Well a lot revolves around TB's belief in globalism, that we are moving toward a one world system so we are 'all in it together' sort of thing. Reasonably big mistake as countries will ultimately resist this kind of structure when it really challenges their own cultural sovereignty.
However from 1997 to around 2003 it was indeed good days. Plenty of deregulation and money floating about. New Labour couldn't do anything wrong, they were walking on water so to speak. They were in abundance of self belief.
Overall I think he should get his Knighthood for serving as he did and he still serves in many public capacities. If only Iraq hadn't come along....
At the end of the day most of the politicians agreed to the war. Their thinking was that America will go in regardless of what we say so we may as well try and secure some brownie points while we have the opportunity.
Loyalties run thin between countries especially between any country and the US. But if they had said at the time 'NO' we don't agree and won't take part the fear was it would weaken Britain's image in the world. We would be seen as spineless at a time where Britain's global image and influence was already pretty non existent.
Well a lot revolves around TB's belief in globalism, that we are moving toward a one world system so we are 'all in it together' sort of thing. Reasonably big mistake as countries will ultimately resist this kind of structure when it really challenges their own cultural sovereignty.
However from 1997 to around 2003 it was indeed good days. Plenty of deregulation and money floating about. New Labour couldn't do anything wrong, they were walking on water so to speak. They were in abundance of self belief.
Overall I think he should get his Knighthood for serving as he did and he still serves in many public capacities. If only Iraq hadn't come along....
Lifted from a Labour blog I think so has some inherent bias but the below is a pretty decent list. He was the best PM I've lived under (I'm 38) despite the folly of the 2nd Gulf War. I'd rank John Major 2nd, Gordon Brown 3rd, and then honest to God the PM's from 2010, Christ........ I'd rank May (did her best, badly) above Cameron (caused Brexit) and Johnson (most unsuitable candidate for PM ever).
But for some people the Iraq war is just too much. Which I find a little weird. Tories voted for it as well, and we've intervened in many places over the last few decades. Some successful, some not.
1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.
2. Low mortgage rates.
3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.
4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.
5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.
6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.
7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.
8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.
9. Employment is at its highest level ever.
10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.
11. 85,000 more nurses.
12. 32,000 more doctors.
13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.
14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.
15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.
16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.
17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.
18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.
19. Restored city-wide government to London.
20. Record number of students in higher education.
21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.
22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.
23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.
25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.
27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.
28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.
29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.
30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.
31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.
32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.
33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.
34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.
35. Banned fox hunting.
36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.
37. Free TV licences for over-75s.
38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.
39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.
40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.
41. New Deal - helped over 1.8 million people into work.
42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.
43. Free eye test for over 60s.
44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.
45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.
46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.
47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.
48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.
49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.
50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.
But for some people the Iraq war is just too much. Which I find a little weird. Tories voted for it as well, and we've intervened in many places over the last few decades. Some successful, some not.
1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.
2. Low mortgage rates.
3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.
4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.
5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.
6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.
7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.
8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.
9. Employment is at its highest level ever.
10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.
11. 85,000 more nurses.
12. 32,000 more doctors.
13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.
14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.
15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.
16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.
17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.
18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.
19. Restored city-wide government to London.
20. Record number of students in higher education.
21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.
22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.
23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.
25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.
27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.
28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.
29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.
30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.
31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.
32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.
33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.
34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.
35. Banned fox hunting.
36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.
37. Free TV licences for over-75s.
38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.
39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.
40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.
41. New Deal - helped over 1.8 million people into work.
42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.
43. Free eye test for over 60s.
44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.
45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.
46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.
47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.
48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.
49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.
50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.
Soldato
- Joined
- 13 May 2003
- Posts
- 8,855
I remember him as the man who threw the moderates under the bus in Northern Ireland and rewarded terorists so he could get his chance at political immortality. I know he helped fracture the country with a truly terrible devolution settlement. He introduced an unnecessary human rights act that has helped enrichen barristers and probably sold a few Sunseekers but not substantially improved upon common and statue law for human rights protections. He signed us up to the Treaties of Nice and Amsterdam without once asking if the country approved. He gave away the EU rebate for the strongest promissary note since Chameberlain got back fro Germany.
The man was a pure class politician who would wipe the floor with the current crop but I can even without his international willy waving I disliked the man and all he stood for. He was far too interested in change but no real idea what he was aiming for. He had the good luck to be Prime Minster during one of the largest sustained periods of growth in the World economy and he allowed his Chancellor to squander the opportunity.
I would prefer if he and Mrs Norris just buggered off.
The man was a pure class politician who would wipe the floor with the current crop but I can even without his international willy waving I disliked the man and all he stood for. He was far too interested in change but no real idea what he was aiming for. He had the good luck to be Prime Minster during one of the largest sustained periods of growth in the World economy and he allowed his Chancellor to squander the opportunity.
I would prefer if he and Mrs Norris just buggered off.
Soldato
I hate TB with a passion but I completely agree with you here. Sadly for everyone involved, the "real" TB came out post 9/11 (an understandable war most would agree) as the praise he got from Afghanistan filled him with so much blindness that, when it spilled over into his absolutely horrific Iraq decision, all that '97-'03 "good will", and his legacy, was rightly destroyed in an instant.
I virtually never wish for actual physical harm to happen to folks, even if I think they may deserve it, but TB pushes me the closest, especially after his grinning visit to us out at Basra in Iraq for his "farewell" tour whilst folks were still dying from his decision.
Soldato
I supported the war/regime change in Iraq on the basis that Saddam was a tyrant and made the Iraqi Shia suffer. But as TB was announcing that we would soon begin, from nowhere he added, "because we want a better standard of living for our people", which I can't support. Yes I want a better standard of living for all, but not at the cost of innocent Iraqi people's lives.
Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Jan 2012
- Posts
- 5,502
He joins John Major on the list so what's the problem?. I was more chuffed for Frank Field to be honest.
Soldato
Knighted? The **** should be placed in the pillories for some public humiliation and then gibbetted.
Caporegime
Only problem for me is when I hear the song Things can only get better I think of him. Totally ruined forever.
The 90's being a good period had nothing to do with him. The 90's was a good period world wide and they rode on that success. Then flushed it down the toilet in 2007.
Tony Blair is still the longest ex PM to wait for a knighthood so the Queen obviously didn't want to but I guess was "what the hell" now. He will go to his grave deep down knowing what he did in Iraq so that is enough for me.
The 90's being a good period had nothing to do with him. The 90's was a good period world wide and they rode on that success. Then flushed it down the toilet in 2007.
Tony Blair is still the longest ex PM to wait for a knighthood so the Queen obviously didn't want to but I guess was "what the hell" now. He will go to his grave deep down knowing what he did in Iraq so that is enough for me.
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Soldato
He was lucky- right place, right time. Boom times and stability when he came in so those first years anyone would have benefitted. Even Ed Miliband would have looked a great PM with the set of circumstances Blair entered into.
we got the nanny state and dragged into wars.
The human rights act simply enshrined EU law into domestic law… hardly something old Blair drafted and pushed through himself, we had to have harmonisation as a result of our membership to the EU.
we then got a financial meltdown and a legacy of devastation in the Middle Eastern after.
man rode on those good times and bailed. Self serving and awful. Doesn’t deserve a knighthood.
we got the nanny state and dragged into wars.
The human rights act simply enshrined EU law into domestic law… hardly something old Blair drafted and pushed through himself, we had to have harmonisation as a result of our membership to the EU.
we then got a financial meltdown and a legacy of devastation in the Middle Eastern after.
man rode on those good times and bailed. Self serving and awful. Doesn’t deserve a knighthood.
Soldato
Double.
Soldato
Labour had ideal circumstances to work with. And Blair took the reigns of a Labour party already 20 points ahead in the polls, with the Tories in absolute disarray. A real "what might have been" when it comes to his more left-leaning predecessor John Smith (who built that 20 point lead). Perhaps the Labour party wouldn't have become so fixated on the centre ground
Soldato
Friend of the late Jimmy Saville too