Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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delta0 said:
It won’t be possible for Russia to win this with the population against them. They will never be able to hold any city long enough. They have yet to take a single city so they are struggling.
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Again damn certain they do not want to take any city.

Going into urban areas causes massive damage and civilian lives.

Just get to a point where Ukranian government knows it is over, and gives in.

Apart from a few resistance/rebels, majority of the population will also surrender when the government does.
 
Entai said:
Yep 20 down leaves them around 1, 180 usable tanks still to go, gove or take, and another 26,980 armoured vehicles after them.

Really heavy damage, really going to slow them down.

It is like fighting against Niagra falls, it will just keep coming, you try to stop a bit, but the flood behind it keeps pushing through.
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I don't think you grasp how big Ukraine is and how difficult it could be for Russia to hold in the event of an insurgency.

Then again you've come out with takes like Russia being able to win a conventional war with the west based on citing troop numbers (perhaps their performance yesterday should serve as a reality check there), or claims previously that it would take 80 weeks to vaccinate people against Covid etc.. so I'd question your judgment in general when it comes to appreciating scale etc..
 
Doobedoo said:
It’s the widespread passive assumption that only others are capable of doing bad things. Only the Russians, the Chinese, the North Koreans etc.

No one acknowledges that we meaning the US and by default us are responsible for much worse than all those combined.

It’s all we are by default good and holy and they bad and evil. End of conversation. If something bad is happening in the World we nothing to do with anything despite a long rap sheet. It delusional.

You can’t condemn others unless you are fully willing to look closer to home first.
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Deslusion, end of conversation.
 
potatolord said:
The assumption there is entirely yours. Many, maybe most, people are rather more sophisticated than your assumption here.



Why is there a "we"? And why, "by default" does that include us with the US? It's a ridiculous stretch to assume the US (and "by default" the uk) is responsible for more deaths than everything else combined.



Again, this is your own prejudice showing.



This is just flat out wrong.
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I don’t do multi quotes.
But you’ve not got to look far for examples of it happening in this thread.

If you want a better understanding of propaganda and how far it reaches into everyday life then have a look here. It doesnt just happen in Russia or China as has been repeatedly stated in these pages.

The mass media serve as a system for communicating messages and symbols to the general populace. It is their function to amuse, entertain, and inform, and to inculcate individuals with the values, beliefs, and codes of behavior that will integrate them into the institutional structures of the larger society. In a world of concentrated wealth and major conflicts of class interest, to fulfill this role requires systematic propaganda.

The essential ingredients of our propaganda model, or set of news "filters," fall under the following headings: (I) the size, concentrated ownership, owner wealth, and profit orientation of the dominant mass-media firms; (~) advertising as the primary income source of the mass media; (3) the reliance of the media on information provided by government, business, and "experts" funded and approved by these primary sources and agents of power; (4) "flak" as a means of disciplining the media; and (5) "anticommunism" as a national religion and control mechanism. These elements interact with and reinforce one another. The raw material of news must pass through successive filters, leaving only the cleansed residue fit to print. They fix the premises of discourse and interpretation, and the definition of what is newsworthy in the first place, and they explain the basis and operations of what amount to propaganda campaigns.

The elite domination of the media and marginalization of dissidents that results from the operation of these filters occurs so naturally that media news people, frequently operating with complete integrity and goodwill, are able to convince themselves that they choose and interpret the news "objectively" and on the basis of professional news values. Within the limits of the filter constraints they often are objective; the constraints are so powerful, and are built into the system in such a fundamental way, that alternative bases of news choices are hardly imaginable. In assessing the newsworthiness of the U.S. government’s urgent claims of a shipment of MIGs to Nicaragua on November 5, I984, the media do not stop to ponder the bias that is inherent in the priority assigned to government-supplied raw material, or the possibility that the government might be manipulating the news, imposing its own agenda, and deliberately diverting attention from other material. It requires a macro, alongside a micro- (story-by-story), view of media operations, to see the pattern of manipulation and systematic bias.
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https://chomsky.info/consent01/
 
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Entai said:
Again damn certain they do not want to take any city.

Going into urban areas causes massive damage and civilian lives.

Just get to a point where Ukranian government knows it is over, and gives in.

Apart from a few resistance/rebels, majority of the population will also surrender when the government does.
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That’s a heck of a risky strategy by Russia. What if they don’t give in? They are conscripting right now and fighting back hard. If that’s how Ukraine stop this then that’s how they will do it.
 
Entai said:
Will get even messier for Ukranians.

Like i said previously, it is like trying to stop Niagra falls.

As shown by the airfield near Kyiv, Russia send 30 helo's, and get beaten back temporarily.

So next time they send in 200, and take the airfield easily, try stopping those say the Russians.

Stop a few, hundreds/thousands more follow.
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This is an invasion though, the invasion won't continue like this forever. Even if the Russians take control, the Ukrainians may continue to mount resistance and this won't be met with 100s of helicopters and 100,000s of troops.
 
Doobedoo said:
I don’t do multi quotes.
But you’ve not got to look far for examples of it happening in this thread.

If you want a better understanding of propaganda and how far it reaches into everyday life then have a look here. It doesnt just happen in Russia or China as has been repeatedly stated in these pages.

https://chomsky.info/consent01/
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Mmm that anti-communism filter.

Americans eh.
 
You would think Russia would have learnt from what happened in Afghanistan when they were last there. Unless the population wants you there its impossible to hold such a huge country like Ukraine. It seems like a military disaster waiting to happen in the longterm.
 
Efour said:
Exactly they lost the war when Putin declared it yesterday.

It's a matter of damage control now, just how much resolve Ukrainians really have to literally fight to the death......

****Ing mess. Good luck to them. I'm way too much of a coward for that.

I suspect in a year's time Putin will move to the next target.

Occupation of Ukraine... That's another issue.
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Do Russia have enough delpoyed to occupy though ? Ukraine could probably surrender and then fight a resistance type war which would likely force Russia to either kill hundreds of thousands of civillians, at which stage you would like to think the UN would step in, or go home after a few years of hefty loses because the Russian public have turned ?

I think its clear that NATO and the "west" will not de directly involving themselves other than what looks to be the supply of hardware.
 
Some of you guys have watched Bald and Bankrupt's youtube videos, he doesn't seem to have posted one but he is in Ukraine still with his buddy/fellow youtuber Johnny (sadly Johnny seems to have been in denial about the risk of Russia invading up until yesterday).

 
Entai said:
Just get to a position whereby the incumbant government realise they cannot win, so give up and capitulate, with minimum losses.
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The government can win though... if it turns into an insurgency then it becomes very costly for Russia, Russia would have a difficult time trying to take the West of the country too, I don't see that the government needs to surrender or give up yet, you do seem to be very defeatist.
 
I get the feeling a lot of Russia's troops, especially the young non-veteran ones don't really have their heart in it.

For Ukraine it's about defending your land. For young Russian soldiers? Some probably wonder why they are doing it.
 
Begbie said:
Do you ban everythign you disagree with?

They might be wrong, but the removal of free speech is a slipperly slope.
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I agree - it's easy to pick the fools out and ignore them, what's funny though they are free to spew their bile without the goverment locking them up & throwing away the key.
 
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