Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Tombstone said:
Must admit I'm surprised, for decades now Russia has been billed as the big bad bear from the East. Tough as houses, scary as hell. Even as recently as a few years ago there were many people saying that if Russia wanted to storm westwards they'd roll over us. What I've read so far of this war though it seems like they are a largely out of date military with some very average fighting ability. Seems to me that no matter what happens in Ukraine from this point on, the idea that Russia is a military superpower (nukes aside) has been blown apart. We used to talk of the top military superpowers being the US and Russia, has this war sealed Russias fall out of the top two military superpowers?
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Just think about how far technology has come since the 1990s. We aren't too far off autonomous fighting robots (my opinion rather than fact, give it 10 more years) with how advanced machine learning and AI have come. How would Russia compete with that?
 
muon said:
How would you know if they are upgraded or not?
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The only thing that’s been consistently upgraded in the Russian military is its naval vessels(which are the better part of useless in this situation) it’s army and airforce have been promised modernisation for years but very little has actually been modernised
 

Destroyed Russian column apparently in Kherson region. Starting to look like the Highway of Death in the Gulf.

Bit of clean up job there. Where's the rag and bone man when you need him?
 
Tombstone said:
Must admit I'm surprised, for decades now Russia has been billed as the big bad bear from the East. Tough as houses, scary as hell. Even as recently as a few years ago there were many people saying that if Russia wanted to storm westwards they'd roll over us. What I've read so far of this war though it seems like they are a largely out of date military with some very average fighting ability. Seems to me that no matter what happens in Ukraine from this point on, the idea that Russia is a military superpower (nukes aside) has been blown apart. We used to talk of the top military superpowers being the US and Russia, has this war sealed Russias fall out of the top two military superpowers?
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Because apparently pretty much this whole strike force is decades old kit that HAS been sat in a field for years, been reconditioned and put back into operation for this very purpose. For the reason that Russia then A, doesnt have to weaken any positions anywhere else, and B, doesn't yet have to show off their true power.

Didn't we see their much more up to date kit in use in Syria a few years back?
 
muon said:
Russia only have Soviet era tanks (T72,T80,T90) and and IFVs (BMP1, BMP1, BMP3).

What's this new stuff people are talking about? Even amongst those volume is generally on the older versions. Only a few hundred of T90 active while thousands of T72/T80 active.
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Something worth noting there is that the T-90 itself is also a Soviet era tank, and not just that but it's actually just an upgraded T-72 with some of the advances of the T-80 thrown in (built in the late 80's because the failing USSR could no longer afford to produce/develop three tanks simultaneously). It was renamed T-90 by Russia in the early 90's purely because they didn't want to advertise that their current best tank was actually just the USSR's third best tank with a couple of upgrades from the other two added.

In extra hilarity, the T-90 they have produced since the year 2000 are actually less armoured export variants originally designed for India, they built/bought these for themselves in order to save money as building more of the better armoured 90's versions was deemed too expensive.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Not to the degree some are reporting here,especially as you are forgetting there is a tendency for countries to overstate or understate losses for moral purposes.
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I'm not forgetting that, what I'm pointing out should be self-evident, if you have to wait for visual confirmation/evidence of each loss then there is going to be a significant lag in doing so so lots of underreporting right now. It will be useful to look back on but stuff that was destroyed two days ago won't necessarily be logged there yet.
 
Uther said:
It makes sense if they actually believed the population would welcome them. There seems to be a very large intel failure here, and of course now it's too late, they're commited.
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I kind of get the using older tech in the expectation the good stuff won't need to be risked, but the supply issue is inexcusable regardless of how fast you think the conquest will go, you still need ammunition and fuel if there's an insurgency after winning the war, it is utterly unfathomable they would not have a plan for after they "win" the intial war

I can't believe Putin & Russia could be so stupid on this
 
soundb0y said:
Because apparently pretty much this whole strike force is decades old kit that HAS been sat in a field for years, been reconditioned and put back into operation for this very purpose. For the reason that Russia then A, doesnt have to weaken any positions anywhere else, and B, doesn't yet have to show off their true power.

Didn't we see their much more up to date kit in use in Syria a few years back?
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Or it really is old crap
 
muon said:
How would you know if they are upgraded or not?
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It's hard to tell what's inside a tank by looking at the outside, however it's a safe presumption to make that if the exterior hasn't been updated since Aliens was in the cinema then the insides havent either.

And dating the exterior is quite easy as they transitioned from ERA armour to Kontact near the end of the 80's meaning any pre-88/89 Soviet style tank is easily identifiable from a later/updated model.
 
woppy101 said:
Or it really is old crap
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Always a chance I guess.

But if you knew you had a huge amount of old kit you could cobble together, likely for the same price as a few modern tanks or jets, and thought Ukraine would be a simple roll through, I can see how it makes some sense.
 
dowie said:
I'm not forgetting that, what I'm pointing out should be self-evident, if you have to wait for visual confirmation/evidence of each loss then there is going to be a significant lag in doing so so lots of underreporting right now. It will be useful to look back on but stuff that was destroyed two days ago won't necessarily be logged there yet.
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Follow his work in Nagorno-Karabakh,Syria and Libya. He knows what he is doing and he also does not like Russians very much,so has no reason to understate their arses getting kicked.

But I still concede your point there is lag in reporting but we will find out over the next week or so. Maybe even in a few days with them trying to enter cities!

Edit!!

Also before you get the wrong impression about this - I hope Russia gets its arsed kicked so it forces Putin to step down. With Putin basically preciding over nearly 350000 of his own people dying from covid,he is going to kill more people because of this war,and end his economy and kill more of his own people.
 
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How can this possibly come to a peaceful end?

The only way I can see a Russian retreat occurring would be for the party or whoever to remove Putin and other high ranking officials. I just can't see how this would end any other way.
 
ubersonic said:
It's hard to tell what's inside a tank by looking at the outside, however it's a safe presumption to make that if the exterior hasn't been updated since Aliens was in the cinema then the insides havent either.
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theres a video showing inside one and it has like 1940s chairs from a bus station or something :cry:

It makes me wonder if those blocks on the sides of the tanks are just pieces of wood painted over, instead of proper anti ballistic materials to absorb the impact or explosives

soundb0y said:
But if you knew you had a huge amount of old kit you could cobble together, likely for the same price as a few modern tanks or jets, and thought Ukraine would be a simple roll through, I can see how it makes some sense.
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Doubt they wanted to be a laughing stock on the world stage, soldiers carrying grocery bags and vehicles with no fuel...

you'd think they would at-least have logistics if they had the capacity for them.

This is like Roman army tactics foraging for food on the way :cry:
 
My heart pours out for the courage and determination that the Ukrainian people are showing . From the press reports it seems they are holding out well but let’s just hope Putin doesn’t ramp up his brutality. I feel he will !

I also can’t help but wonder if other forces are at large here inside Ukrain as well given how well there fighting back..
 
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