Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[Chuk_Chuk]

Shooting at any NATO country triggers NATO, not sure your point there?

America is agressive. You acknowledged that.

Hence why America has preemptively shot people

That agreession mean that they drag NATO countries around since any response to America's aggression, triggers Nato into action.
As as a citizen of the UK I don't fancy getting dragged into a war because America likes to swing their dick around.

 

[dave1983]

So they have nothing to lose now.

This is my fear that if we push the bear cage to much.

 

[robfosters]

So they have nothing to lose now.

No, but they can start to get back what they’ve lost

 

[Freakbro]

Surely if Putin fails (and I think he will) the west are going to be providing the best hardware, training and support for the Ukraine in the aftermath of this

I think we may be getting a bit over confident that the underdog is 1-0 up after 10 mins, if Russia decide to revert to usual tactics and decide to flatten the opposition with bombardment, Ukraine cities will probably fall quite quickly.

I’m wondering when the dust settles, if this will end up to be one of the biggest military blunders in recent history.

Even if Russia do succeed in 'taking' Ukraine I can't see it not turning into a protracted guerilla war, combined with the way he has unified most of the world against him, so it already looks to be one of the biggest military blunders!

 

[KiNgPiN83]

Russia being cut off economically
I think the guy is unwell and needs dealing with now

I think the rest of the world were hoping that enough people in Russia around Putin would get fed up and do it for us once all the sanctions start to hit.

 

[Amnesia]

I think Russia will be quite insistent that Ukraine "de-militarize" as well; something I don't believe they will do

I don't think there is a realistic chance of de-militarize and promise to never join NATO. It would just leave Ukraine completely defenseless and open for invasion at any time.
It has to be one or the other and surely Russia would want the latter as that has been their gripe for quite some time.

 

[413x]

Ukraine should be free to make whatever choices they wish in terms of organisational membership. If they wanted to rejoin Russia, so be it. If they want to join NATO, so be it. They're a sovereign country and their direction is their own.
Russia can not dictate the actions of others.

I don't think we should have got involved. I just think that Ukraine should have agreed. The alternative is this. An unwinnable war.

I mean there is no way Ukraine can come out of this with a win. There is no win. At least trying "we won't ever join nato if you don't invade" might have stopped this.

I actually don't think it would have worked. But it would show Russias hand.

 

[Kill_Phil]

You stop there. If Russia does then carry on. Effectively that deal is torn up and you know treaties are worth nothing (probably know that anyway).
Might by some time for him to die.

If it could have avoided bloodshed surely it's worth a go.

However I do not agree with de militarising bordering nato countries.

Maybe, just maybe it would have allowed putin the win he so desperately craves.


It probably wouldn't have worked. But I feel. It was worth a try.

Well the world turned a blind eye to crimea and here we are years later, him trying another land grab. Ukraine had every right to defend its land this time around.

 

[Doobedoo]

At least we know we cant trust you to defend your country then xD

I’m not fighting wars for old people simple as that.

IF we are ever invaded then I will protect myself and my loved ones but I’m not going all saving private Ryan.

 

[delta0]

This is my fear that if we push the bear cage to much.

I don’t see this ending until Putin is gone. That will be the price to pay (plus the full withdrawal from Ukraine) to have sanctions even considered being lifted.

 

[SPG]

Ukraine can do what they want, Join NATO, join the EU etc. Not many of the ex soviet union blocks wanted to rush back into Russian arms.

Again Ukraine has done nothing wrong, all those wanting a end to this with Russia gaining territory need a slap themselves. You do not deal with dogs like Putin and give him what he wants. They tried the stooge government and the people rejected totally. Hell you cant even protest against the war in Russia now else max 20 years in jail.

Cut them off, make them North Korea until the attitude of the top people change.

 

[Firestar_3x]

I don't think we should have got involved. I just think that Ukraine should have agreed. The alternative is this. An unwinnable war.

I mean there is no way Ukraine can come out of this with a win. There is no win. At least trying "we won't ever join nato if you don't invade" might have stopped this.

I actually don't think it would have worked. But it would show Russias hand.

Russia only understand force, they take anything else as a major sign of weakness, they have (rightfully so) been emboldened in the last decade and this is the consequence.

 

[Freakbro]

America is agressive. You acknowledged that.


That agreession mean that they drag NATO countries around since any response to America's aggression, triggers Nato into action.
As as a citizen of the UK I don't fancy getting dragged into a war because America likes to swing their dick around.

Well no, that's not how NATO works?

Just because the USA is a member of NATO, if they go to war as America and not under the banner of NATO like, for example in Iraq, and get shot that that doesn't trigger a NATO response does it. You're just being silly now with your analogies to try and stretch a non-existant point.

Now if America was invaded by an external force, then that would trigger a NATO response, since it's a defensive organisation.

 

[Doobedoo]

Russia only understand force, they take anything else as a major sign of weakness, they have (rightfully so) been emboldened in the last decade and this is the consequence.

So do many on here mind.

 

[Amnesia]

Well the world turned a blind eye to crimea and here we are years later, him trying another land grab. Ukraine had every right to defend its land this time around.

Of course they have the right to defend, I don't remember anyone saying otherwise. It's just some people believe agreeing to not join NATO would have possibly prevented this war and it was at least worth trying.

 

[fez]

I think we may be getting a bit over confident that the underdog is 1-0 up after 10 mins, if Russia decide to revert to usual tactics and decide to flatten the opposition with bombardment, Ukraine cities will probably fall quite quickly.

Russia haven't done that so far because they would rightly be concerned that the rest of the world would pile in on them and China would have no choice but to completely distance themselves from Russia as well. There would also be no coming back from that. Currently they can back-track and the sanctions will be removed reasonably quickly I imagine. Commit atrocities against the civilian population and thats it.

 

[Hotwired]

Derangement would be to launch first and warn later. He’s not deranged I know people think they know how he thinks and what he’s planning and all the rest of it, but they don’t. We have seen in this thread people are just carpet bombing opinions and snippets of media how some of it hits.

It’s a warning to back it up as someone said you need to give them a way to back out, because if you really believe he’s deranged then your acting very stupidly.

I don't recall there being a good option anywhere about dealing with someone that controls over a thousand nuclear weapons and if they open an invasion by implying nuclear war it's not a sign they're fully on their perch.

Backing it up would be doing as Putin says and not getting involved with his land grab from the "nazis" of Ukraine. Yet here we are with the Ruble turning into dust and Ukraine becoming a massive NATO and EU proxy.

 

[NickK]

America is agressive. You acknowledged that.

That agreession mean that they drag NATO countries around since any response to America's aggression, triggers Nato into action.
As as a citizen of the UK I don't fancy getting dragged into a war because America likes to swing their dick around.

Last time America looked to expand it's boarders?

The US is commercially aggressive and looks to protect commercial interests - typically this becomes arms when Putin or Xi are on the other side supplying arms too.

In the end countries with resources become pawns for the larger countries to invest, then that becomes a protection of investment and then protection of resource access.

Look at Iran - both Russia and China invest, both want something back for that investment and that's a safeguarded supply of oil. Should that come under threat, they will act to protect the resource access and not care about Iranian people.

However it typically starts with commercial investment - belt and road anyone? It's the same with EU and with the US. Once the money becomes a revenue for the country, the government will be expected to pay attention to the investor/customer.. finance 101.

TL;DR - All countries do this, be it oil, gas, uranium, copper, or coffee..

 

[SPG]

I’m not fighting wars for old people simple as that.

IF we are ever invaded then I will protect myself and my loved ones but I’m not going all saving private Ryan.

You wouldn't have a choice in the matter, Even if you did get out of it the shame of being a coward will live with till you die and that would also impact your family even more. That is if someone else doesn't shoot you first of course.

 

[Rilot]

The Ruble hasn't crashed by as much as I thought it would this morning.